Administrator Edward Posted October 12, 2017 Administrator #1 Posted October 12, 2017 We're looking to reword provably fair a bit and are looking for some help. Words such as "Client seed", "Server seed" etc. are a little daunting. What would be the simplest way to get a new user to understand these aspects (Through the use of some better terminology).
Tej17 Posted October 12, 2017 #2 Posted October 12, 2017 but Provably Fair is what other sites are also using....for me its fair simple to understand thanks
cipok Posted October 12, 2017 #3 Posted October 12, 2017 Provably Fair is fair but being generated by programming code / language The problem is where can I find that the code is really random or fair
rack001 Posted October 12, 2017 #4 Posted October 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, cipok said: Provably Fair is fair but being generated by programming code / language The problem is where can I find that the code is really random or fair It can be verified by anyone who know a little bit of programming ,it is easy to verify the rolls by creating simple scripts using the data given here - https://stake.com/fairness/ .
Kargai Posted October 12, 2017 #5 Posted October 12, 2017 Provably Fair is used everywhere so i guess it's what players are used to and will find easier, on the other hand for newbie it's not really instinctive. "Why it's Fair ?", "Fair Game"
Mrboss Posted October 12, 2017 #6 Posted October 12, 2017 A Wild Suggestion from me too Substitute provably fair with "Why You Win,Why You Lose" This #may be cool
Moderator ThugStream Posted October 12, 2017 Moderator #7 Posted October 12, 2017 Yooo! Provably Fair in short : Random numbers are generated by the use of two seeds Server Seed and Client Seed... Server Seed is hashed and shown at starting of the bet. We choose your own Client Seed Random or Manual (any character) , there is no way for the casino to alter the outcome without the verification failing. Its all programming generated digits where no one can get into it. 4 hours ago, rack001 said: https://stake.com/fairness/ . Fairness tab at stake shows provably fair in detail ... Goodluck ThugStream
Dan Posted October 12, 2017 #8 Posted October 12, 2017 Life isn't fair, we are. To expect life to treat you good is as foolish as hoping a bull won't hit you because you are a vegetarian. Provably fair has no bulls or vegetarians, just verifiable legitimacy for your gambling.
g0am3ch Posted October 12, 2017 #9 Posted October 12, 2017 fair - verified by my motivated fucking computer genious. bevare fucking stake y0u fucking start from this fuck1ng explanat1ons https://dicesites.com/provably-fair 25 minutes ago, hui said: hui are you korean or something. in russsian hui - mean _)_)===3
daemonss Posted October 12, 2017 #10 Posted October 12, 2017 think about an equation there are 4 variables. X + Y + Z = S 1. server seed 2. server seed hashed 3. client seed 4. nonce 3 of them is know by the player after all the calculations done the game consequences is occur. after you play if you want to check that game, you can change your server seed. the unknown variable will be shown to you and you can verify the equation and you can understand the game is fair. If you think that they can change the unknown variable but you were wrong. when you play you know the 3 variable on that game so if they change it the equation will fail. that`s how the fairness works for both side.
Lillyflow Posted October 14, 2017 #12 Posted October 14, 2017 On 10/12/2017 at 12:00 AM, Edward said: We're looking to reword provably fair a bit and are looking for some help. At the moment it's very complicated and the words are fairly long and complicated. We want something that everyone can understand What would be the simplest way to get a new user to understand provably fair (Through the use of good wording). I explain it like this: "Provably fair means the result of the game is determined independently of the fact that it may win or lose. The casino doesn't wait for you to push the button and THEN decide the result based on your wager... it gives the result regardless of the wager. In fact the casino cannot alter the game once a wager is made. Usually verifiable via encrypted hash only applicable to the one wager on the one game. "
RGBKey Posted October 14, 2017 #13 Posted October 14, 2017 Math that allows you to prove the house has not altered the results of the game
Administrator Edward Posted October 14, 2017 Author Administrator #14 Posted October 14, 2017 Sorry should have explained better - More or less looking for better words to describe "Client seed" & "Server seed" etc.
RGBKey Posted October 14, 2017 #15 Posted October 14, 2017 34 minutes ago, Edward said: Sorry should have explained better - More or less looking for better words to describe "Client seed" & "Server seed" etc. You might be able to try a paint analogy, like the one commonly used to explain the Diffie-Helman key exchange: Imagine a game of roulette where the number on the board was determined by a shade of paint, and every shade of paint had its own number. The number of shades of paints is very large, because you can always change it by mixing just a little more of some other paint in. The house starts off by picking their own color of paint, but they want to keep it secret. So the house mixes their secret color with a special paint and shows you the mix. You can't tell what their secret color is from this mix, but this will come into play later. Next, you come up with your own color of paint, and give it to the house. Then, the house mixes together their secret paint (that you don't know), your paint you gave them, and one more color color that changes every spin. (This last color is something that you know, so imagine they just pick red, orange, yellow, green, blue, etc. every time but they have an infinite amount of options). The color they get once they mix everything together is what they use to pick the number in roulette! Now, why couldn't they just pick a number by themselves without all that stuff in the middle? Since you gave them your color before they mixed the paint together, you changed the outcome in a way they couldn't expect. This means that the house does not have any control over the shade of paint, only the way they use the paint to get a roulette number Now, you've finished betting for the night. The house shows you their secret color! To make sure that they were doing what they said they were, you take their secret color and mix it with the special paint just like they did in the beginning, and you see that it made the same mix as the one they showed you at the beginning. This is important! This means that the house was doing just what they said they were doing If you wanted to, you could mix the colors yourself to see what the results are yourself, i.e. now that you have the house's secret color, you mix it with your color and the color that changes every spin (remember, you know the color that changes for every spin, let's just say it's red for the first spin). You get a mix of colors and find out that the mix corresponds to the number from the first spin on the roulette wheel. Yay! The house isn't cheating you! The nitty-gritty: The house's secret paint is the server seed. Your paint is the client seed. The paint that changes every round, is the nonce (A nonce is just a number that usually starts at 0 or 1 and goes up by one for every bet you make). The special paint is a cryptographic hash function, which is a special function that takes in any data and gives you a different piece of random-looking data. The important part about the hash function is that it's one-way: If you only have the result, you can't use it to get what was originally put in the function. Provable fairness isn't one particular method or set of actions, it's more of a general set of rules: The user must somehow influence the result - This is provided by the use of a client seed The game must operate in a way that shows the result could not have been altered in the favor of the house, or in any other way - This is provided by the hash of the server seed Hope this helps, it could probably be more friendly but that's what I came up with on the spot.
Lillyflow Posted October 14, 2017 #16 Posted October 14, 2017 I like the paint analogy. Could also compare it to two halves of a whole. Like a friendhip locket. Even easier to understand is the work KEY. In a normal lock only 1 key will open it. In a provably fair technology based game, you need two keys, together to unlock the door, which is the game result. You need both keys to unlock the result or the game is invalid.
Botude Posted October 15, 2017 #17 Posted October 15, 2017 What is probably fair lol I didn't use that
Lillyflow Posted October 20, 2017 #18 Posted October 20, 2017 I always thought the term "probably fair" should be "verifiably unaltered"
Roland Posted October 20, 2017 #19 Posted October 20, 2017 I dont know what is thiss all about but hope soon i knew it..
Stalkerjex Posted October 20, 2017 #21 Posted October 20, 2017 lol sometimes gambler dont know whats thats mean but speacial thing is to get lucky
skillex Posted October 21, 2017 #22 Posted October 21, 2017 For me if i have to suggest, id like to reword it to "prefferably fair"
neoooo Posted October 25, 2017 #25 Posted October 25, 2017 It is a common terms on all gambling sites now , but as a little clarification u can use the word 'key' instead of 'seed', so it will be "Client key" & "Server key" instead of "Client seed" & "Server seed"
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