The Rainbot is Starting to Impair Chat

[wry]

Right off the bat let me say that I fully support Stake giving away its money any way that it chooses.

However, as someone who has always enjoyed Stake's chat, the rainbot has become a major distraction.  I totally understand wanting to reward players rather than chatters with the rainbot, I've come to think of it as more of a "rake back" bot.  I realize that there are a large number of factors that potentially influence it (see link below), but chatting is clearly pretty minor on what it values.

Yet because it tips in public its behavior is a constant distraction in chat.  Why not just have it rain privately?  You are still rewarding players and not giving a reason for people to complain about being missed or making comments about the size of the rain, e.g. "wow, fat one!" which even I have been inclined to do from time to time.  I doubt many people play so they will get rewarded by the rainbot so I don't think its encouraging "chatters" to become "players" it is just an annoying distraction.  I realize the Primedice rainbot rains publically in chat, but that chat is not something I would aspire for Stake chat to become.

I know there is almost zero chance of this changing, but maybe I'm missing something and I thought it might be fun to discuss!  So what am I missing?

For factors that go into the bot:  

 

[Dan]

Having it rain in private would kind of defeat its purpose. We utilise the rainbot as one of the tools to broadcast that we offer free money to those people who participate in our community and events. The problem is most those initiatives are not recognised and as a result, we don't usually engage with new players well because they don't understand the perks of playing on our site.

99% of the crypto gambling community are not aware that we give out rewards to all participants in our promotions and 100% of that same community are not aware of pay per post or any of the other great free initiatives we offer to community members.

If you have any ideas on how to solve this problem that can result in private rain's, we would really love some feedback as we know the public rain may not be the best tool to do so but we have no better ideas that work as well as the rain does.

[badger]

I think private rain is a great idea wryy. It sucks going in chat and seeing 50 new names, mostly alts, and not being able to find dub or etude. Thanking the bot is ok? Stupid. Ugh. 

[wry]

1 hour ago, Dan said:

We utilise the rainbot as one of the tools to broadcast that we offer free money to those people who participate in our community and events. The problem is most those initiatives are not recognised and as a result, we don't usually engage with new players well because they don't understand the perks of playing on our site.....

If your goal is to inform new visitors about a great site feature, I don't see how having rainbot posting in chat works any better than say having a banner that there are random rewards for players.  They can read it and then click it away.  They're now informed.

I don't know for sure, but I expect that after looking for a help tab (also a great place to put information about FREE MONEY) and faucet the next thing new people look for is chat.  What do you want that chat full of, people bitching about missing the latest rain or having discussions about bitcoin, stake, winning and losing?  It seems the latter crowd would be much more welcoming.

Is there still a requirement of how much to gamble in order to chat?  I seem to recall that is how I lost the wry account I had on Stake, I tried to chat, couldn't and said fuck this.  Later I found the bitcointalk thread that gave you enough to wager in order to chat, did so, and was very glad I did.  I've been a large Stake fan since.

Ironically, as I've said in the past, I always thought Stake was the one place that got it right by having mods and support rain in the chat.  There is no substitute for the human touch.  To the extent you move away from this I'd say you are working against the objectives you've stated.

I can think of several ways to publicize and share many of the great ways you try and help players, and too frequently just get flooded with alts instead (see link below), but that goes way beyond the current version of rainbot. 

Earlier suggestion: 

 

[Dan]

33 minutes ago, wry said:

If your goal is to inform new visitors about a great site feature, I don't see how having rainbot posting in chat works any better than say having a banner that there are random rewards for players.  They can read it and then click it away.  They're now informed.

I don't know for sure, but I expect that after looking for a help tab (also a great place to put information about FREE MONEY) and faucet the next thing new people look for is chat.  What do you want that chat full of, people bitching about missing the latest rain or having discussions about bitcoin, stake, winning and losing?  It seems the latter crowd would be much more welcoming.

Is there still a requirement of how much to gamble in order to chat?  I seem to recall that is how I lost the wry account I had on Stake, I tried to chat, couldn't and said fuck this.  Later I found the bitcointalk thread that gave you enough to wager in order to chat, did so, and was very glad I did.  I've been a large Stake fan since.

Ironically, as I've said in the past, I always thought Stake was the one place that got it right by having mods and support rain in the chat.  There is no substitute for the human touch.  To the extent you move away from this I'd say you are working against the objectives you've stated.

I can think of several ways to publicize and share many of the great ways you try and help players, and too frequently just get flooded with alts instead (see link below), but that goes way beyond the current version of rainbot. 

Earlier suggestion: 

 

Yes there is a wager requirement to chat. The moderators and support are very busy people. They prefer at times having their tasks automated where possible.

[jualid]

I think it needs to add more requirements, like not only to chat but also you must bet minimum 0.001 or less for the time duration before the airdrop.

[lolipant]

if private rain is no good. why don't make a room solely for rain announce? (and no one can chat there) that way it's existence is still the same while probably easier to moderate

[rebol]

Im not much of a chatter but I love the rainbot . No need to change anything. Public or private doesnt matter to me . haters gonna hate .Keep spreading the love.. 

[badger]

What happened to mods and support tipping 0.0001? And trivia? With the rainbot wrecking chat and the mods not tipping and no games, chat is not as fun as it was. : (

Thank you wryy

[Dan]

27 minutes ago, lolipant said:

if private rain is no good. why don't make a room solely for rain announce? (and no one can chat there) that way it's existence is still the same while probably easier to moderate

We want people to see the rains occurring when they first visit the site and therefore have a reason to register and get involved with the community. If its hidden on a different channel people might not even know it exists.

5 minutes ago, badger said:

What happened to mods and support tipping 0.0001? And trivia? With the rainbot wrecking chat and the mods not tipping and no games, chat is not as fun as it was. : (

Thank you wryy

I was under the impression that mods still rain weekly, as for the support, not so sure, they might know the answer.

[badger]

It’s not super critical, but I would greatly prefer that to the rainbot

[williamshennie9]

The rainbot is a good feature, in my opinion.

It can clog up the chat when one user does 5 or more rains in a short amount of time, but otherwise, I really like it

[irawk0]

I suggest having the rainbot message be a pop-up for everyone (even those who weren't rained on) instead of being in the chat. Maybe have it stay on the screen for 1-3 seconds longer?

Or somehow make the rainbot message in chat auto-delete 5 seconds after appearing

[bmg]

I totally agree 100% with what you're saying chat really is not the same anymore and it sucks. About 85 to 90% of the people in chat we've never seen before this rain bot. And like what Badger said chats not fun anymore what happened to the support in the mods tipping and having chat games roll hunt trivia Etc. I'm not sure if you guys have noticed this or not but none of the regulars are really there anymore because of all this going on . if something is not broken why try to fix it stake was fine and now it's broken.

[testB]

From the Chat Rules: Don't beg or ask for loans or tips.

It might be worth adding something about rain to that one. Be it for asking, or related complaints.

[Kargai]

6 hours ago, wry said:

If your goal is to inform new visitors about a great site feature, I don't see how having rainbot posting in chat works any better than say having a banner that there are random rewards for players.  They can read it and then click it away.  They're now informed.

I don't know for sure, but I expect that after looking for a help tab (also a great place to put information about FREE MONEY) and faucet the next thing new people look for is chat.  What do you want that chat full of, people bitching about missing the latest rain or having discussions about bitcoin, stake, winning and losing?  It seems the latter crowd would be much more welcoming.

Is there still a requirement of how much to gamble in order to chat?  I seem to recall that is how I lost the wry account I had on Stake, I tried to chat, couldn't and said fuck this.  Later I found the bitcointalk thread that gave you enough to wager in order to chat, did so, and was very glad I did.  I've been a large Stake fan since.

Ironically, as I've said in the past, I always thought Stake was the one place that got it right by having mods and support rain in the chat.  There is no substitute for the human touch.  To the extent you move away from this I'd say you are working against the objectives you've stated.

I can think of several ways to publicize and share many of the great ways you try and help players, and too frequently just get flooded with alts instead (see link below), but that goes way beyond the current version of rainbot. 

Earlier suggestion: 

 

Can't agree more on that, I tried to expose a similar point of view in our team group ^^ Quality over quantity, but it seem that wasn't the priority.

One thing who hurt me is looking at Stake chat and seeing almost no conversation about cryptos. About gambling that happen sometimes but about crypto related subject that's almost never the case.

6 hours ago, Dan said:

Yes there is a wager requirement to chat. The moderators and support are very busy people. They prefer at times having their tasks automated where possible.

To be honest (and it's only my point of view) I prefer being busy tipping users who bring real value on the site (by posting on forum, by chatting decently, by wagering, ...) than being busy repeating rules all days long, muting people and spending time looking if users are abusing rainbot on other chatrooms

4 hours ago, badger said:

What happened to mods and support tipping 0.0001? And trivia? With the rainbot wrecking chat and the mods not tipping and no games, chat is not as fun as it was. : (

Thank you wryy

.We are still doing it but it's way less noticeable now that rainbot is effective. For trivias I can only speak for myself and I stopped doing it before rainbot due to the increase of alts, I limited to 2 wins my trivias but people were just popping to another alt to play without us knowing that was an alt (or discovering it weeks later). So at the end of the day I prefer tipping people I know are genuine players who bring something in the mix. So no more trivias.

The mods rains are more splitted too, now that we have 3 news mods on foreign chatrooms (Indo, Russia and PH), mods in english room have less rains to do.

1 hour ago, irawk0 said:

I suggest having the rainbot message be a pop-up for everyone (even those who weren't rained on) instead of being in the chat. Maybe have it stay on the screen for 1-3 seconds longer?

Or somehow make the rainbot message in chat auto-delete 5 seconds after appearing

That could be a nice way to implement it and satisfy everyone : a notification who appear in one corner of the screen for every rain and disappear after 3 sec. That will be visible on every page of the site (new people can't miss it) and users could have the option to disable it in their preferences if they don't want the notification everytime.

Because right now @Dan it's indeed visible in main chat but what come directly after the rain is chatter complaining/insulting or passive begging & co. Not sure it don't hurt the first intent to motivate people to register and play.

*********************

Now that i gave my answers to your posts let me expose my own point of view as mod 😛 (and it's only MINE, not the Stake's team one)

There is more users & more activity in chat, we can't deny that. But the vast majority of that new activity is made by beggars, abusers or alts. I now spend daily at least 2 or 3 times the number of hours I was spending on Stake before and I actually feel I do less, because most of my time is to repeat the rules all day long, to warn people, to watch after users if they are abusing, what they say before in chat, if they are abusing rainbot in other chatrooms & co ... to find if they take profit of the system or not. Because if they do it's at the expense of genuine players.

Because from my point of view if we have (for example) an Indonesian rainbot there is no point if non-indo players go to the chatroom to receive the rains more easily than it is in the English or Russian one, it will be negative for everybody except abusers : Indo players will be mad and Stake will have a bad image.

And even if i apply the rules strictly and make 50 mutes a day the chat is still awful to watch. Plus I can't spend that much time freely each day on that, so I tend to close the chat or Stake more and more often. I just simply don't have the time anymore to bond with new players, to learn to know them, to make trivias for my tips, to develop new ideas for the site (like I did with Fantasy Trader), ... in fact I shared a new idea last week with the team but even if i had the green light to launch it ... I just simply will not have the time to do it.

On the other hand it's always hard to complain when you win some coins freely. I can admit I win a decent amount of cryptos each day, not much than others but since i'm active in chat to remind rules, warn people & co I receive my fair share. And it's great let's be honest. But I would prefer to receive it for something else more positive. I can understand people like some in this thread who say "don't change the system", they are basically posting few 1-2 words messages a day in chat and receive 10 free rains for doing nothing. Free stuff will always attract people, knowing if that's the kind of people who want to see on Stake is not up to me.

People complain also on Primedice for the same reason (ie: https://forum.primedice.com/topic/33125-a-scathing-critique-of-the-tipping-system/) so maybe at the end of the day we will find a way to fulfill all the interests in place. I believe Stake team is one of the best suited one to tackle those issues and we'll can find a way all together with our community

[lolipant]

another idea: can't you just add it here? like a High Roller

[Dan]

24 minutes ago, lolipant said:

another idea: can't you just add it here? like a High Roller

That's a good idea actually, I kind of like it.

One a side note, are we sure that the complaints are directed at the rainbot broadcasting in chat or that people aren't receiving rains?

[Kargai]

6 minutes ago, Dan said:

One a side note, are we sure that the complaints are directed at the rainbot broadcasting in chat or that people aren't receiving rains?

For what I saw (and i spent quite lot of time lurking chat recently)

- old and usual chatters complain more about people who cry not receiving rains and those who spam chat with non-sense, "gratz all" & co just to have more chance to win the rain.

- new users complains not receiving rains ("rain always missing me", "wtf i'm here since 6 hours and no rains", "rainbot bot help me", ...) or that rain are too small (200 sats & co)

 

[Dan]

Also is there any possible solution that doesn't change how it currently works? What if we changed chat restrictions to be more strict? Or we have wager requirements that are based on the last week, rather than all time?

Or another’s idea that would work as a solution is we could make it so chatting has no effect on the likelihood of you being rained on. And we also make it more transparent about how to earn a chance at rain? Or we just rename it to lottery and say to earn a ticket you have to wager a certain amount in that 15 mins?

[xtinepink]

1 hour ago, Kargai said:

For what I saw (and i spent quite lot of time lurking chat recently)

- old and usual chatters complain more about people who cry not receiving rains and those who spam chat with non-sense, "gratz all" & co just to have more chance to win the rain.

- new users complains not receiving rains ("rain always missing me", "wtf i'm here since 6 hours and no rains", "rainbot bot help me", ...) or that rain are too small (200 sats & co)

 

This is funny because it’s true, most of all I see in chat is “grats, oh rainbot hates me, missed rain” 

It’s crazy how alts pop out and surprisingly other people pretend to be Russian, Filipino, Indian in each channels just to catch this rain. Why? Because it’s easier to get rains on other channel than those in English Group, why again? Because they can catch rains even just by chatting hi , hello, wow or even !odds or commands. 

 

 

[wry]

8 hours ago, Dan said:

Also is there any possible solution that doesn't change how it currently works? What if we changed chat restrictions to be more strict? Or we have wager requirements that are based on the last week, rather than all time?

Or another’s idea that would work as a solution is we could make it so chatting has no effect on the likelihood of you being rained on. And we also make it more transparent about how to earn a chance at rain? Or we just rename it to lottery and say to earn a ticket you have to wager a certain amount in that 15 mins?

It will be easy to devise a solution once it becomes clear what you are trying to accomplish with the bot.  Your first post acted like it was to inform new users of all the money stake gives away.

[Dan]

5 hours ago, wry said:

It will be easy to devise a solution once it becomes clear what you are trying to accomplish with the bot.  Your first post acted like it was to inform new users of all the money stake gives away.

It was multiple party decision to implement the rainbot.

Here are the objectives as I understand them:

1. Reduce work load for support who have to spend time raining daily.
2. Increase chat activity.
3. Make it incredibly obvious to new players that being apart of the community rewards you.
4. Incentive to register and confirm email.

You have to understand that decisions aren't made by the majority of the people you communicate with. The other thing you have to consider, is the rainbot (may be coincidence, but that's unfortunately not measurable) has contributed significantly to the increase in many things, including activity, online users and deposits. They were the KPI's that were set for the creation of the rainbot service, and the outcome has been very good.

So my solution is to remove the chat component of rainbot, so that chat has no influence on the likelihood of receiving rain. The problem that I see everyone complaining about is the passive beggars. If we removed chat influence on rain, then they wont have a need to passive beg to rainbot.

My other idea is that we change the requirement to chat to be based on wager in the last fortnight rather than wager of all time.

[lolipant]

18 minutes ago, Dan said:

So my solution is to remove the chat component of rainbot, so that chat has no influence on the likelihood of receiving rain. The problem that I see everyone complaining about is the passive beggars. If we removed chat influence on rain, then they wont have a need to passive beg to rainbot. 

i like this.

18 minutes ago, Dan said:

My other idea is that we change the requirement to chat to be based on wager in the last fortnight rather than wager of all time. 

i don't like this since it's too restrictive to just chat

[Dan]

1 minute ago, lolipant said:

i like this.

i don't like this since it's too restrictive to just chat

But that's the problem is it not? Its too easy for passive beggers to reach chat requirements.