Exploring the Impact of Client Seed in Keno

[Skruffaen]

Hello everyone,

 

I’ve recently been experimenting with Stake.com’s Keno game and started exploring the Provably Fair system, specifically focusing on the “Client Seed” setting. I noticed that changing the client seed seems to alter the pattern or sequence of outcomes significantly.

 

I’m curious if anyone else here has looked into this. Have you noticed similar effects? How extensively have you experimented with different client seeds, and what observations or conclusions have you drawn from your experiences?

 

If you have conducted tests or gathered data, I’d greatly appreciate if you could share your insights or results.

 

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and input!

[sadie6cc]

so if im lose lose lose losing ill take a screen shot on my bet so I remember it and write down the seed number and so maybe one day I can go back and I know they are gonna hit and I can just go through all the gonna hit seeds

 

wow i have a question do we share seeds?? because I wanted to go back to an old seed but what if someone else has played on it??

 

[Piperkiki]

Ok sorry but what is client seed? 

[Kingschram]

It’s been better for me refreshing seeds

its perfect

[midnight]

On 4/26/2025 at 5:13 AM, Skruffaen said:

 

Sorry empty replied, I'll edit this in reply in a sec
 

The client seed is just one part of the hmac algorithm that generates the hash the float/roll is based off of.

It's the first part of the message, think the lock. The shape of the keyhole... it's kind of irrelevant, as long as the lock works. But that's even kind of a bad analogy by itself.

 

When you take all the components,

hmac(serverSeed, clientSeed:nonce:round) = outputhash

it is the outputhash that matters, specifically the first few bytes of it (for some games, more for others), and there is no way to predict how that outputhash is going to generate off of only a single part of the hmac build. That's why it's kind of fruitless.. it's the only thing we can control, but really, you don't control the actually important part, which is the encryption itself.

 

Luckily, that does mean that they also do not get to control the entire hmac construction, we get to pick one element of it before it's committed... that's the point. It's not about what the client seed is or isn't capable of, it's not capable of anything on its own, and only considering it as an overly important element is wasteful.

On 4/26/2025 at 5:23 AM, sadie6cc said:

so if im lose lose lose losing ill take a screen shot on my bet so I remember it and write down the seed number and so maybe one day I can go back and I know they are gonna hit and I can just go through all the gonna hit seeds

 

wow i have a question do we share seeds?? because I wanted to go back to an old seed but what if someone else has played on it??

 

Unless the server seed is the same, which it won't be, the games will always end up different, even using the same client seed. You need all parts of it to be the same to resolve the same bet.

Edited May 7, 2025 by midnight

[StakeGeek666]

i always lose..i'm also changing seeds