Zero Confirmation Deposits For Trusted Players

[Qvvaser109]

OK. We all know how blockchains function here. There is no reason a player that makes daily or weekly deposits should be waiting 5 minutes or any minutes for their deposit to show in their balance. There are methods for gauging how trustworthy a transaction is and wha the likelihood of a double spend is. We should be able to enjoy instant deposits, in my opinion..... Within reason, of course.

[SandMan420]

I agree to an extent this would be a nice perk. Maybe incoorporate into the VIP system. However, as a past casino owner I know that a scorned "trusted" player can easily turn a scammer and "exit scam". In this digital world one cannot be to careful. Within reason though on depo size this would be a nice VIP perk. Nice post. 

[Qvvaser109]

7 minutes ago, SandMan420 said:

I agree to an extent this would be a nice perk. Maybe incoorporate into the VIP system. However, as a past casino owner I know that a scorned "trusted" player can easily turn a scammer and "exit scam". In this digital world one cannot be to careful. Within reason though on depo size this would be a nice VIP perk. Nice post. 

I agree with you there. Trust only goes as far as an anonymous username will allow. Perhaps I should have worded it differently and only mentioned trustworthy transactions with a substantial fee.

[gotmebro]

26 minutes ago, Qvvaser109 said:

I agree with you there. Trust only goes as far as an anonymous username will allow. Perhaps I should have worded it differently and only mentioned trustworthy transactions with a substantial fee.

then the person could just double spend the transaction if he lost the bet

[wngo123]

Quote

 There is no reason a player that makes daily or weekly deposits should be waiting 5 minutes or any minutes for their deposit to show in their balance.

If you can't wait a few minutes then you might have the problem with gambling addiction. It is obvious that transaction must be confirmed when it involves money and it doesn't matter if it's crypto at online casino or your visa card at your local store. Nobody will sell you anything without confirmation and it doesn't matter that you 'do shopping there every day'. Come on let's be a bit realistic. 

[Etude]

Yes this would be a great thing to be done as whenever blockchain gets so clogged with unconfirmed transactions such as presently at around near 70k unconfirmed transactions, it can cause such long delays if the fees paid for the deposit is not up to par. So having this suggestion done would greatly convenient valued customers.

[Hoffguy]

yes agree, can't have zero confirmations makes it too easy to scam i guess,  how many confirmations does it take at the moment for money to hit the accounts with bitcoin? is it more than one confrimation? if it's more than one confirmation, maybe could have something in place that if you have made deposits before totalling more than 10x what you are trying to deposit, then it will clear in just one transaction or something. If it already clears in one transaction not sure what can be done! But would be nice if could have something in place so when the network is congested people don't have to wait so long, but i guess this i just bitcoin, and like asking for the sky not to be blue, it's kind of part of the whole thing - bitcoin is bitcoin, and sometimes delays will happen i spose. 

[ozcelik06]

it would be very suitable for abuse.

If someone send 1 fake bitcoin from testnet and play?

 

[arielg443]

As nice as instant transaction seems, I don't think this would be a smart move.
It doesn't matter how long a player has been around, at any point they could decide to scam or become untrustworthy.
What would stop them from becoming "trusted", ripping off Stake, and then just making another alt to do the same thing all over again?
Just because they're going to rip off the casino, doesn't mean that they automatically are assumed to not have the patience to go through the required steps to do so.
I don't like waiting on really slow transactions, especially at very congested times, just as much as the next person, but I understand why it isn't already something that is happening right now.
I think the bad would far outweigh the positive on the subject of instant transactions.

[pinguoin]

we'll all know how blockchain works true.. that's why we actualy happy that he only wait until 1 confirm since i seen lots of scam from reposting the same trading id from a wallet on a time based and get refund. or actualy some wallet was able to ''Cancel'' the transaction after start, i think you still can

[Carollzinha]

5 hours ago, Qvvaser109 said:

OK. We all know how blockchains function here. There is no reason a player that makes daily or weekly deposits should be waiting 5 minutes or any minutes for their deposit to show in their balance. There are methods for gauging how trustworthy a transaction is and wha the likelihood of a double spend is. We should be able to enjoy instant deposits, in my opinion..... Within reason, of course.

Let me tell you a short history that will probably make you understand my opinion in this matter.

My parents have been running a mini store in the past 25 years. I have seen lots of customers going and coming every single day while I used to live / work with them. They had an amazing old woman that used to buy everything at their store. She used to buy during the whole month and at the start of the new month she would come and pay for everything at once.. and she used to spend a lot, always paying on time. She was one of the best customers they had.. but there was a day when she just disappeared (moved to another city) and never came back, not even to pay her debits.. and we never heard about her anymore.

So, what did I learn with that (and some other) situations all over these years? Doesn't matter how good and how honest a person can be, they will only be correct while it benefits them. People can do things you can't even imagine when its money related.. and at least 90% of them will only be honest while they can take any kind of advantage with it. Grifter and Ravenyvolle are good examples of this same situation inside this same community. Both of them have been high rank trustworthy inside Stake and Primedice and we all know how it ended (not to mention all these Primedice VIP related cases).

With that said I have to disagree from your idea.

[lupandina]

Most complicated word in this topic is "trusted". How to define it? How to ensure, that "trusted" won't become bad guy another day? Or everyone, or no one. So, in this case - no one... And I think it's fair enough. In crypto gambling we can move our funds pretty fast and without much restrictions, it's not like in some part of fiat gambling - days...

[Jakubb]

2 hours ago, Etude said:

Yes this would be a great thing to be done as whenever blockchain gets so clogged with unconfirmed transactions such as presently at around near 70k unconfirmed transactions, it can cause such long delays if the fees paid for the deposit is not up to par. So having this suggestion done would greatly convenient valued customers.

Yeah, this is true, but just like dina said above

12 minutes ago, lupandina said:

Most complicated word in this topic is "trusted". How to define it? How to ensure, that "trusted" won't become bad guy another day?

How can we ensure that the person that's trusted will stay like that and won't change on the other day, or how can we know that someone won't just give their wallet to some rather tasty person the next day which will abusive this? This is a hard question and would take a lot of looking into, to. I would indeed love quicker speeds of deposits and withdrawals, but still, not a big, big fan of the idea.

[Aazzah]

Do you know what, That would be really awesome if that was a thing. I would really appreciate it if it was. It would be so much quicker and easier for the trusted players

[barbaris]

Then many will begin to send deposits with a very low fee and such transactions may never be confirmed. I think that how it is implemented now is quite normal and why should we create problems for ourselves.

[CntryBoy]

I can easily see the pros and cons of adding instant deposits for "trusted" players, as many good examples have already been given. Me personally, I don't mind waiting the 5-10 minutes in some cases that I have to wait for my deposit to be credited.  A few of the other top sites now have implemented this and made it available for "trusted" players as well.  I wonder how many of them have been burned by it in some way and regret having made it available?

[bobdole]

Would be nice but would probably cause needless issues for the support. I'm not sure even how you would go about canceling a btc transaction but lets say they do that, send a btc to stake-withdraw-cancel initial deposit. Most online wallets won't confirm your balance with only one confirmation so stake is trusting us by having only one. Trust but verify.  

[Qvvaser109]

12 hours ago, gotmebro said:

then the person could just double spend the transaction if he lost the bet

 

8 hours ago, Carollzinha said:

Let me tell you a short history that will probably make you understand my opinion in this matter.

My parents have been running a mini store in the past 25 years. I have seen lots of customers going and coming every single day while I used to live / work with them. They had an amazing old woman that used to buy everything at their store. She used to buy during the whole month and at the start of the new month she would come and pay for everything at once.. and she used to spend a lot, always paying on time. She was one of the best customers they had.. but there was a day when she just disappeared (moved to another city) and never came back, not even to pay her debits.. and we never heard about her anymore.

So, what did I learn with that (and some other) situations all over these years? Doesn't matter how good and how honest a person can be, they will only be correct while it benefits them. People can do things you can't even imagine when its money related.. and at least 90% of them will only be honest while they can take any kind of advantage with it. Grifter and Ravenyvolle are good examples of this same situation inside this same community. Both of them have been high rank trustworthy inside Stake and Primedice and we all know how it ended (not to mention all these Primedice VIP related cases).

With that said I have to disagree from your idea.

Great story. Only difference here is that we are dealing with immutable transactions on 6 different blockchains. The "old lady" in your analogy would be the Depositing player if I understand you correctly. Her debt to your parents store would then be the deposit?  I'm trying here but the two situations are completely different. Once a transaction is started, there are ways to measure the chances of a double spend occurring. In the time that it would take a player to win or lose their deposit, the confirmations would likely have already happened. Double spends are not easy to pull off. ETH you can cancel before confirmation but that shows instantly on the blockchain. 

I'm simply saying that it is possible. There is limited to no risk for the house because the devs here are competent and could easily code it in. Other sites have been doing it for years. 

9 hours ago, wngo123 said:

If you can't wait a few minutes then you might have the problem with gambling addiction. It is obvious that transaction must be confirmed when it involves money and it doesn't matter if it's crypto at online casino or your visa card at your local store. Nobody will sell you anything without confirmation and it doesn't matter that you 'do shopping there every day'. Come on let's be a bit realistic. 

I'm being very realistic. Once the transaction is recorded to the blockchain it is then very simple to measure the chances of a double spend or the likelihood of confirmation. Gambling addiction has nothing to do with the feature I'm talking about. Don't know where that came from......Namaste.

8 hours ago, ozcelik06 said:

it would be very suitable for abuse.

If someone send 1 fake bitcoin from testnet and play?

 

Pretty sure that is not a problem. Testnet games would be cool though.

8 hours ago, arielg443 said:

As nice as instant transaction seems, I don't think this would be a smart move.
It doesn't matter how long a player has been around, at any point they could decide to scam or become untrustworthy.
What would stop them from becoming "trusted", ripping off Stake, and then just making another alt to do the same thing all over again?
Just because they're going to rip off the casino, doesn't mean that they automatically are assumed to not have the patience to go through the required steps to do so.
I don't like waiting on really slow transactions, especially at very congested times, just as much as the next person, but I understand why it isn't already something that is happening right now.
I think the bad would far outweigh the positive on the subject of instant transactions.

This is not a new concept. The zero confirmation transactions have been used since the first crypto dice sites opened in 2010. The only way to scam is to double spend. Double spends are very easy to predict on the backend and even in the unlikely scenario a fishy transaction was credited, it would be detected by the network's consensus mechanism.

If we were relying on people to be "trusted" that would be a different story. That is why we have blockchains..... Isn't it? Because people suck.

8 hours ago, pinguoin said:

we'll all know how blockchain works true.. that's why we actualy happy that he only wait until 1 confirm since i seen lots of scam from reposting the same trading id from a wallet on a time based and get refund. or actualy some wallet was able to ''Cancel'' the transaction after start, i think you still can

Yep. ETH you can cancel but that type of transaction would fall under the "do not credit" category.

7 hours ago, lupandina said:

Most complicated word in this topic is "trusted". How to define it? How to ensure, that "trusted" won't become bad guy another day? Or everyone, or no one. So, in this case - no one... And I think it's fair enough. In crypto gambling we can move our funds pretty fast and without much restrictions, it's not like in some part of fiat gambling - days...

I really wish I had chosen a better word than "trusted". It totally missed the point that trust is not actually a factor at all. It's only mathematics. 

6 hours ago, barbaris said:

Then many will begin to send deposits with a very low fee and such transactions may never be confirmed. I think that how it is implemented now is quite normal and why should we create problems for ourselves.

Then those transactions would not be credited instantly because they would would be considered high risk. Not necessarily of a double but of being dropped from the mempool after a few days. This is also been worked out years ago and implemented many times.

 

6 hours ago, CntryBoy said:

I can easily see the pros and cons of adding instant deposits for "trusted" players, as many good examples have already been given. Me personally, I don't mind waiting the 5-10 minutes in some cases that I have to wait for my deposit to be credited.  A few of the other top sites now have implemented this and made it available for "trusted" players as well.  I wonder how many of them have been burned by it in some way and regret having made it available?

None have been burned if they pulled their libs from the same stacks that all the other wallets have. 

[arielg443]

14 minutes ago, Qvvaser109 said:

 

Great story. Only difference here is that we are dealing with immutable transactions on 6 different blockchains. The "old lady" in your analogy would be the Depositing player if I understand you correctly. Her debt to your parents store would then be the deposit?  I'm trying here but the two situations are completely different. Once a transaction is started, there are ways to measure the chances of a double spend occurring. In the time that it would take a player to win or lose their deposit, the confirmations would likely have already happened. Double spends are not easy to pull off. ETH you can cancel before confirmation but that shows instantly on the blockchain. 

I'm simply saying that it is possible. There is limited to no risk for the house because the devs here are competent and could easily code it in. Other sites have been doing it for years. 

I'm being very realistic. Once the transaction is recorded to the blockchain it is then very simple to measure the chances of a double spend or the likelihood of confirmation. Gambling addiction has nothing to do with the feature I'm talking about. Don't know where that came from......Namaste.

Pretty sure that is not a problem. Testnet games would be cool though.

This is not a new concept. The zero confirmation transactions have been used since the first crypto dice sites opened in 2010. The only way to scam is to double spend. Double spends are very easy to predict on the backend and even in the unlikely scenario a fishy transaction was credited, it would be detected by the network's consensus mechanism.

If we were relying on people to be "trusted" that would be a different story. That is why we have blockchains..... Isn't it? Because people suck.

Ahhh, I really enjoyed reading your replies, Qwaser109. 
You sound quite intelligent, to be honest. 
Maybe I didn't think far enough into this before replying.
The only downfall I found to the instant deposits were the possibilities of Stake being ripped off.
However, if they could find a way to predict double-spends on the back-end that would cover themselves from being scammed... why not?
I do think that if they did offer instant deposits, they should have some type of criteria that should be met to further lower the risk of being scammed.. which I guess ties into the whole "within-reason" part of your initial post as well.
I'm kind of curious though, what do you usually use to deposit? BTC? BCH?
I'm usually switching between multiple tabs when I deposit and don't think its been too many times that I thought that my deposit was particularly slow.
BCH is a bit slow for my liking though. I haven't deposited too much with BTC lately, as I've been switching between all of them to see how they do..
However, playing on Stake with BTC still seems to be my favorite. So may just stick with it in end.

[Enzo]

You know, I'm enjoying the discussion here but with the fact that double spending exists, I don't believe this needs to be even considered. It's not a good idea and if you can't wait at most, an hour for your deposit. You need help imo.

[Kate]

It is a good idea but see people can go untrusted anytime like the moderator who stole like a lot from wilbur and never returned for paying back the loan that he took.

[jasonboss]

On 6/28/2019 at 4:44 AM, Qvvaser109 said:

OK. We all know how blockchains function here. There is no reason a player that makes daily or weekly deposits should be waiting 5 minutes or any minutes for their deposit to show in their balance. There are methods for gauging how trustworthy a transaction is and wha the likelihood of a double spend is. We should be able to enjoy instant deposits, in my opinion..... Within reason, of course.

i agree, i think much better if we can deposit real money from our bank accounts, that way we can deposit more. and less hassle. 

[niki014]

i like the idea but if it was my website i wouldnt do it 
dosnt matter how trusty you are its always better to see the money in the wallet before they go in the balance of us ( the players)   
+ its just 5 min who cares like lol 

[williamshennie9]

I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. Firstly, trust is difficult to define, and secondly, this is open to be heavily abused, even by trusted players. 5 mins is really not that long to have to wait in my opinion.

[Paecga129]

I agree that this would be a nice addition to us good loyal players.   But the wait for confirmation doesn’t really seem to be that long.   Although sometimes it can be quite annoying.