Dead or Alive?

[Stake Staff]

Hello, Stakers

Bumped into an interesting article this morning while I was scrolling through the news, so thought 'why not share it with all of you?'  

The speculation is about the alleged BTC founder, Satoshi Nakamoto, and of the crucial question in case of his death - Where will his 980,000 BTC eventually end up if and when he dies/is dead already/is real? 💸

The network has become immensely volatile, especially today, so what does this tell us? Should we buy quickly or is this just temporary occurrence?! 

Found here as well a really nice excerpt from the BTC whitepaper definition, in case you want to explain to your parents or friends what Bitcoin in fact is:

Quote

Commerce on the Internet has come to rely almost exclusively on financial institutions serving as trusted third parties to process electronic payments. While the system works well enough for most transactions, it still suffers from the inherent weaknesses of the trust based model. Completely non-reversible transactions are not really possible, since financial institutions cannot avoid mediating disputes.

Tell me your opinions in the comments, looking forward to reading them  

You can find the full article on this link: https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-creator-satoshi-dead/ (source)

*still hasn't sold her last month paycheck, yikes!* 😬
 

[AlphaStorm]

My opinion on this is clear. Satoshi Nakamoto is a group of individuals and cannot die. If I understand the system correctly, then these coins can upset the balance of the system if they become available (in any case, they will critically affect the price of bitcoin). There were many rumors that this is an analogue of the “red button” in the crypto world.

But it seems to me that nobody will ever see these coins (in any case, I hope so)
 

In my opinion, this news is a shock. Someone is trying to move the market 🔀

[Stake Staff]

I sincerely hope to wake up tomorrow morning and see the BTC on the rise again  

Your claim about the 'group of individuals' might just as well be true. Either way, anything is possible, I guess. Just super-worried about the price atm 🙈

[AlphaStorm]

12 minutes ago, Bojana said:

I sincerely hope to wake up tomorrow morning and see the BTC on the rise again  

Your claim about the 'group of individuals' might just as well be true. Either way, anything is possible, I guess. Just super-worried about the price atm 🙈

Don't worry too much about it. These are just whale games.

I am almost sure that by the end of the year we will see a price above 15k per coin.

Simple math. When the price is high, you get less coins, but the same amount in dollars. When the price is low, you get the same amount in dollars but more coins.

Sell only when necessary or the price has exceeded your expectations. (this is if you are not a regular trader)  

[wry]

My understanding is that it is generally believed that "Satoshi's coins" will never move. 

Sadly, Craig Wright has almost as many coins as that and his coins WILL move.  He has been ordered by a court to give half of them to a former business partner.  If he sells the hundreds of thousands of BTC yeah, the price will crash, but then I expect it will come back.  Anyway, getting off topic, but the main idea is that Satoshi essentially "gifted" us those bitcoins by never using them.  By taking them out of use, he made all our BTC that much more valuable.

I do think Satoshi was a person.  He was active on Bitcointalk back in the early days.  That doesn't sound like something a group would do.

[hui]

I couldn't have said this any better, if Satoshi's coin would be gone this only means that there are less BTC in total, making each one more valuable. Also agree on him being a person. The papers Satoshi wrote don't look like a group work at all as additional argument in this direction.

[niki014]

''The CEO of BitMEX foresees the bitcoin price achieving $100,000 in the next three years, which would place the “net worth” of Satoshi at $98 billion, making Satoshi the second richest individual in the world behind Amazon founder and CEO Jeff Bezos.'' 
this sounds so unreal 
they are talking about btc hitting 100k from year i dont think it ll ever hit it or if it does it ll be so soon 
but who knows 
imagen if bitcoin goes super up in the future like one bitcoin is 1m and then the 1k satoshi is 10 bux
btw i hope it drops and then goes up cuz i lost the ones i had and not a good time to invest right now but if it drops i ll prob buy eth or ltc cuz ones btc start going up again i ll win more investing in those then in btc and then invest in btc  
 

[polor12]

wait is this the reason why btc has been going down.. wow first it thought that the founder was already dead.. oh well.. is lower then it has been for a long time.. at the rate it is should go few more hundred.. ill say buy at 5.. if not 6.. most likely it would go to 6500 for the lowest and will pick back up.. or can this be the end of btc???

[AlphaStorm]

9 hours ago, hui said:

The papers Satoshi wrote don't look like a group work at all as additional argument in this direction

I agree and disagree with this. Because it is highly likely that the account was used only by one person from a group of persons. The project "blockchain" is too large for one person. That’s why I think this is a group.

I am not sure that the rate may fall below $ 7500. In any case, we will see what will be closer to Friday.

[Stake Staff]

19 hours ago, AlphaStorm said:

Don't worry too much about it. These are just whale games.

I am almost sure that by the end of the year we will see a price above 15k per coin.

Simple math. When the price is high, you get less coins, but the same amount in dollars. When the price is low, you get the same amount in dollars but more coins.

Sell only when necessary or the price has exceeded your expectations. (this is if you are not a regular trader)  

Okay, I won't worry, thank you for comforting me *still worries until she sees at least 10k there back*

16 hours ago, wry said:

My understanding is that it is generally believed that "Satoshi's coins" will never move. 

Sadly, Craig Wright has almost as many coins as that and his coins WILL move.  He has been ordered by a court to give half of them to a former business partner.  If he sells the hundreds of thousands of BTC yeah, the price will crash, but then I expect it will come back.  Anyway, getting off topic, but the main idea is that Satoshi essentially "gifted" us those bitcoins by never using them.  By taking them out of use, he made all our BTC that much more valuable.

I do think Satoshi was a person.  He was active on Bitcointalk back in the early days.  That doesn't sound like something a group would do.

So, what you are saying is that guy might be selling the hoax story just to cover himself up? 🤔Interesting development of the story...

14 hours ago, hui said:

I couldn't have said this any better, if Satoshi's coin would be gone this only means that there are less BTC in total, making each one more valuable. Also agree on him being a person. The papers Satoshi wrote don't look like a group work at all as additional argument in this direction.

What you and wryy are saying is that those funds are useful only in case they are static and kinda keeping market in equilibrium? Am I right? 🤔

14 hours ago, niki014 said:

imagen if bitcoin goes super up in the future like one bitcoin is 1m and then the 1k satoshi is 10 bux

Can we just go back to 10k for now, tnx?!  

6 hours ago, polor12 said:

wait is this the reason why btc has been going down.. wow first it thought that the founder was already dead.. oh well.. is lower then it has been for a long time.. at the rate it is should go few more hundred.. ill say buy at 5.. if not 6.. most likely it would go to 6500 for the lowest and will pick back up.. or can this be the end of btc???

Might and might now be the reason, it is still fairly a speculation 🤔

Okay, don't jinx it further, pls!  

5 hours ago, AlphaStorm said:

I agree and disagree with this. Because it is highly likely that the account was used only by one person from a group of persons. The project "blockchain" is too large for one person. That’s why I think this is a group.

I am not sure that the rate may fall below $ 7500. In any case, we will see what will be closer to Friday.

Alpha and his conspiracy theories  

[wry]

5 hours ago, Bojana said:

What you and wryy are saying is that those funds are useful only in case they are static and kinda keeping market in equilibrium? Am I right? 🤔

What I was trying to say was the coins are indeed static, BUT they actually help everyone else who holds Bitcoin.  It doesn't have anything to do with equilibrium, other than the fact that the equilibrium that results with those coins being sidelined is higher than it would be with them on the market.

I'd like to see 10K USD back too, if for no other reason than to make the math easy again, but I have my doubts about it happening in the near future.  Fortunately, there is no way to know and I am often wrong!  I hope I'm super wrong about that!

[hui]

10 hours ago, Bojana said:

What you and wryy are saying is that those funds are useful only in case they are static and kinda keeping market in equilibrium? Am I right? 🤔

 

It's hard to say wether the existance of these coin is "priced in" but fundamentally the market is a game between supply and demand. More supply with unchanged demand ultimately results in a lower price. So yeah, if these coin are not on the market it benefits the price and in case they never hit the market that would be beneficial for the price for sure. It's kind of absurd but every "lost" coin potentially raises the value of BTC as a whole. It's the same of all the stories in early Bitcoin days where thousands of BTC were lost due to lost wallet passwords, broken harddisks etc.

 

15 hours ago, AlphaStorm said:

I agree and disagree with this. Because it is highly likely that the account was used only by one person from a group of persons. The project "blockchain" is too large for one person. That’s why I think this is a group.

Haven seen some guys in the crypto scene doing amazing stuff basically all on their own I disagree. The initial paper could very well be (and I believe it's like that) the work of a single person. There are countless example of single people doing great work for the benefits of everyone in crypto world (look at Phil Zimmermann alone as an example), let alone in the scientific community or even globally and I take great delight from that fact because it means that a single person can actually move something in this world.

That being said it shouldn't be forgot that the actual implementation of BTC wasn't done by Satoshi alone but a community of "Core Developers" who also took input and suggestions from the community to create that wonderful piece of software that shaped a lot of things afterwards as something like the "gold standard".  

[Stake Staff]

19 hours ago, wry said:

What I was trying to say was the coins are indeed static, BUT they actually help everyone else who holds Bitcoin.  It doesn't have anything to do with equilibrium, other than the fact that the equilibrium that results with those coins being sidelined is higher than it would be with them on the market.

I'd like to see 10K USD back too, if for no other reason than to make the math easy again, but I have my doubts about it happening in the near future.  Fortunately, there is no way to know and I am often wrong!  I hope I'm super wrong about that!

Gotcha now, that is how I understood you initially Lelz, I hope you are wrong about the price too! 🙈

15 hours ago, hui said:

It's hard to say wether the existance of these coin is "priced in" but fundamentally the market is a game between supply and demand. More supply with unchanged demand ultimately results in a lower price. So yeah, if these coin are not on the market it benefits the price and in case they never hit the market that would be beneficial for the price for sure. It's kind of absurd but every "lost" coin potentially raises the value of BTC as a whole. It's the same of all the stories in early Bitcoin days where thousands of BTC were lost due to lost wallet passwords, broken harddisks etc.

Yup, something similar as wryy said  (another alt confirmed *khm*)  

Could you link me to the alleged Satoshi's BTT account, pls, wanna check his activity there?  

[AlphaStorm]

15 hours ago, hui said:

Haven seen some guys in the crypto scene doing amazing stuff basically all on their own I disagree. The initial paper could very well be (and I believe it's like that) the work of a single person. There are countless example of single people doing great work for the benefits of everyone in crypto world (look at Phil Zimmermann alone as an example), let alone in the scientific community or even globally and I take great delight from that fact because it means that a single person can actually move something in this world.

That being said it shouldn't be forgot that the actual implementation of BTC wasn't done by Satoshi alone but a community of "Core Developers" who also took input and suggestions from the community to create that wonderful piece of software that shaped a lot of things afterwards as something like the "gold standard"

I expressed my opinion a bit wrong. I fully support the version that the concept itself was developed by one person. I talked about the fact that in general, the whole project cannot be attributed only to “Satoshi Nakamoto” with 100% probability.

 

15 hours ago, hui said:

It's kind of absurd but every "lost" coin potentially raises the value of BTC as a whole. It's the same of all the stories in early Bitcoin days where thousands of BTC were lost due to lost wallet passwords, broken harddisks etc.

But what if Satoshi Nakamoto's wallet is one of them? (is wallet activity being tracked?  wallet entry? )

[wry]

4 hours ago, Bojana said:

Could you link me to the alleged Satoshi's BTT account, pls, wanna check his activity there?

I was not making it up!  He has few posts but it is really fun to see some of the early posts.  There's one from Gavin Anderson talking about people exploiting the Bitcoin Faucet that gives out 5 Bitcoins each!

Anyway, here's Satoshi's profile on Bitcoin Talk, you can click at the bottom to see all his posts.  Yes, this is legit.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3

[Stake Staff]

On 9/27/2019 at 1:21 AM, wry said:

I was not making it up!  He has few posts but it is really fun to see some of the early posts.  There's one from Gavin Anderson talking about people exploiting the Bitcoin Faucet that gives out 5 Bitcoins each!

Anyway, here's Satoshi's profile on Bitcoin Talk, you can click at the bottom to see all his posts.  Yes, this is legit.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3

Thanks, wryy, I did not say you were making it up, just wanted to check it directly to assess the writing style and all 😁

[nuuuitsjdragon]

Boy, am I glad I came in. 

If I recall correctly, this seems to be the first time observing a real conversation/discussion between multiple poster(s). Every single opinion or point made was well thought out and just as interesting as the one before it.

If Bitcoin were to ever breach $20,000 in the near future, it will be very strange (and FOMO) times.

Personally, I don't think Bitcoin actual value is anywhere near its current value... but then again, if following the rules of Supply & Demand, it doesn't matter what the intrinsic value is as long as the general consensus believes it to be so. 

[Stake Staff]

On 9/28/2019 at 5:02 PM, nuuuitsjdragon said:

Boy, am I glad I came in. 

If I recall correctly, this seems to be the first time observing a real conversation/discussion between multiple poster(s). Every single opinion or point made was well thought out and just as interesting as the one before it.

If Bitcoin were to ever breach $20,000 in the near future, it will be very strange (and FOMO) times.

Personally, I don't think Bitcoin actual value is anywhere near its current value... but then again, if following the rules of Supply & Demand, it doesn't matter what the intrinsic value is as long as the general consensus believes it to be so. 

Hehehe, I meant to comment the similar thing, @nuuuitsjdragon, but I didn't want to break the discussion here  

What do you consider the 'real value/optimal one' should be now? 

[vizta]

On 9/28/2019 at 8:32 PM, nuuuitsjdragon said:

Boy, am I glad I came in. 

If I recall correctly, this seems to be the first time observing a real conversation/discussion between multiple poster(s). Every single opinion or point made was well thought out and just as interesting as the one before it.

If Bitcoin were to ever breach $20,000 in the near future, it will be very strange (and FOMO) times.

Personally, I don't think Bitcoin actual value is anywhere near its current value... but then again, if following the rules of Supply & Demand, it doesn't matter what the intrinsic value is as long as the general consensus believes it to be so. 

The bitcoin will not cross $10000/ bucks near future. Suppose if it crosses then people hesitate to buy BTC because of its higher transaction fees.

A businessman always looks for profit and likes to be his business very confidential, flexible. BTC now has all the qualities. If it crosses then the popularity of BTC will increase to sky but some people will stay away from BTC. 

Let me like to give you the example of XRP, the founders of this unique coin maintain the stability in price of the XRP. So that let it more popular to adopt by the common man.  

[nuuuitsjdragon]

22 hours ago, Bojana said:

Hehehe, I meant to comment the similar thing, @nuuuitsjdragon, but I didn't want to break the discussion here  

What do you consider the 'real value/optimal one' should be now? 

I think its true value lies ~ 1/3 of its price - which I believe is still inflated heavily due to:

• Majority of Supply lies in a small handful of individuals
• Unregulated use on the Darknet for illegal purchases

Of course, we can always argue that Bitcoin's anonymity is exactly the thing that illegal transactions require... 

[Stake Staff]

15 minutes ago, nuuuitsjdragon said:

I think its true value lies ~ 1/3 of its price - which I believe is still inflated heavily due to:

• Majority of Supply lies in a small handful of individuals
• Unregulated use on the Darknet for illegal purchases

Of course, we can always argue that Bitcoin's anonymity is exactly the thing that illegal transactions require... 

So, if I understood you well, the ideal price on which the balance would be achieved is around approximately 3k USD? 🤔

[GKD09]

On 9/25/2019 at 8:30 PM, Bojana said:

thank you for comforting me *still worries until she sees at least 10k there back*

Hahah this is literally me too..  feeling better now that its back to 8.5k and also reading some comments saying its supposed to rise waaay up

Really nice topic btw. Was actually expecting few noobs to say random stuff but I was wrong. Got heaps of info!!! 😊

[iamsheikhadil]

No one knows who Satoshi can be, but as an atheist I would ask the theist people to ask their respective gods to know about the real identity of satoshi. 

If he reveals his identity and transacts with his coins, it will have hazardous effect on the price of the coins but the value of the blockchain system will not decrease at all because the blockchain system is effectively real value because it can solve a lot of real life problems excluding financial system.

Reports police informations attendance and everything can be kept on blockchain to prevent corruption and all and to make it really transparent. Blockchain is bigger than bitcoins and hence even if satoshi comes out then BTC price might go down but only to a limit because the underlying blockchain value will soon back it up. 

[Stake Staff]

On 10/1/2019 at 1:39 PM, GKD09 said:

Hahah this is literally me too..  feeling better now that its back to 8.5k and also reading some comments saying its supposed to rise waaay up

Really nice topic btw. Was actually expecting few noobs to say random stuff but I was wrong. Got heaps of info!!! 😊

Thanks, @GKD09, I will try to make more of those when I bump into some interesting topic again 

Hahahaha, also, yeah, this is comforting, to know I am not the only one #tothemoon #pls!!! 🌝