Does changing seeds matter?

[ThomasTV2]

Hey everyone! I have see SO many threads so I am going to be here to put a end to all of this. 

Scroll all the way down if you do not care about what I have to say and just see the simple answer, for those who want to stay and read, I am going to break this down into two sections. Section one will be, mathematically speaking. Section two will be the physiological effects of mixing up your seeds! So lets get started!

Mathematical Facts

So first things first, before you read anything in this section you should have a basic understating of this section of the Stake website! https://stake.com/provably-fair/overview

I will be going over some simple stuff below then summarize it for everyone! 

Client Seed

The client seed is what YOU provide to Stake, It is the factor you control. It can be in any form: Numbers, Symbols, and even emojies! 

This client seed is then converted to a number form so it can be used in the calculations. 

Server Seed

The server seed is the seed that Stake provides. This is to ensure that Stake is able to contribute to the result of the round, because without it we would be able to see if we won a bet or not before it was placed. 

The seed is displayed to us in a hashed version, this is for two main reasons: First it is a one way mathematical function (SHA256). This is in place to ensure no one will be able to reverse the seed and see the true server seed, because with this, we would be able to see the outcome of a game before we play. The other reason behind this is to be able to verify the server seed matches the hashed version. 

Nonce

The nonce is simply a number that increments as every new bet is made, this creates a completely new result each time, without having to generate a new client seed and server seed.

The implementation of nonce, ensures we remain committed to your client seed and server seed pair, whilst generating new results for each bet placed. (Yes I took this off the PF page because I cba to write this out). 

So what? 

With all of that, we can ensure that Stake does not rig any of the bets we place. All of that ensures a RANDOM result for each game, neither Stake or You (player) can predict the outcome. 

But Thomas, I am just unlucky will changing my seeds do anything? 

Not really. I mean, its random so it COULD in theory. But I would not rely on it. I personally do not change my seeds often. (More on why in the physiological effects section)

Physiological Effects

So this section will be short compared to the last one. We all ready know that Stake is not rigged. So, when you are losing a lot of bets does switching my seeds do anything? Yes and no. 

No because its random

But yes, because this can be compared to the placebo effect. (A placebo is an inert substance or treatment which is designed to have no therapeutic value. Common placebos include inert tablets, inert injections, sham surgery, and other procedures.). An example of a common placebo in the psychology field are: Giving a patient a sugar tablet and telling them it cures something. They think it fixes the problem so in their brain they start to change and contribute it to the fake pill. 

The same effect can be seen on Stake. Lets say you are on a red streak on dice. You are chasing the "49.5000" payout. You lose 50 bets, so you change your seeds and then hit it instantly. Your brain will think, wow I got to change my seeds more often, when in reality it was just luck. So you will start to think that changing your seeds will change the outcome, when it reality it does not. 

 

TL:DR: No, it does nothing. Stake is not stupid; they would not risk their reputation to "pull the lever" on some bets. Its just not a long term profit goal. 

Thanks for reading! Please feel free to comment questions and feedback! I hope this made sense, I threw this together out of annoyance of people talking about changing seeds makes them win. lol  

 

[evet]

It does. It changes the order of the numbers that comes out. For example, in your previous seed. 100 comes out in the 300 rolls you made and in the next seed you might just hit it in like 50 rolls or so depending on the seed. 

You the on chat just now. Playing slots. Have a good day mate and goodluck.

[Katsuragi]

of course it matters is like changing all the luck factor it could be for the worst or the better so is still random

[Ali saher]

I not think seed change affect on game results because all games results rondom I not change my seed I win so many time good and so many times I lose but I think mostly I lose because I not play carefully

[GodLoft]

Client seed and server seed is very important, in my opinion if you lose too much or win too much , change your seed

[sheenazbay]

I read everything even though it's too long. I agree that the seed is random, so changing the seed does not determine whether we will hit or not. everything is random. I am among those who rarely change seeds, even though they have reached hundreds of thousands of rolls

[Lovenas99]

Changing seeds really doesn’t matter. At the end of the day, you will still either have a consolidating game, a wining streak or a loosing streak. Sometimes people try changing seeds when they are loosing. But I personally think that with every bad seed, there is Akos a good side. That’s the beauty of the game. 

[Etude]

To me changing seeds would just be moving on to another set of random, given that you would not have known either what is the next roll coming up in the previous seed that you have just changed from.

[Ali saher]

On 2/6/2020 at 5:33 AM, evet said:

It does. It changes the order of the numbers that comes out. For example, in your previous seed. 100 comes out in the 300 rolls you made and in the next seed you might just hit it in like 50 rolls or so depending on the seed. 

You the on chat just now. Playing slots. Have a good day mate and goodluck.

I think every results coming in rondomly if we change our seed then just our numbers change not game results change I play this same seed I win so many times big I don't think seed affect on game

[Jelanstream]

I really don't think so if when you change seed there's provably you will get luck or unlucky because for me I always believe 
on luck even I change my seed or not. But sometimes when I play and I get streak loss I change my seed and after that
I hit the multiplier what did I hunt.

[Thepug]

I love how you made a whole forum topic on this, just over someone clicking one button to change their seed

I agree with the psychological effects the most though. If someone is constantly losing on a seed, they are going to change it to a "winning one". I see this all the time with people that have won a lot of money, and they base the sole reason for this on a "lucky seed".

[johnlopez0000]

Wow that enlightened my idea about seeds hahahaha thank you for this information.

[sahil777]

i dont know about others thought about this, but i strongly think that seed always matters, because i usually rotate my seed alot, i tried to read seed many many times, i noticed few things which really makes my beleif strong in seed changing thing.

[joefrey]

Technically Yes. but in terms of luckiness? it does not matter. gambling solely based on luck. This is my opinion

[htetaungxx]

HelloThomasTV2,
That was really helpful for me, honstly I didn't really understand about changing seeds and how that is working. I think when I was understand about seed and nounce I will got profit again.

[ITDex]

I did not really understand much about client seeds and server seed. and i never really looked into it. thanks for makiing it clear tho

[Seoulmate]

The deeper you go in a seed the more likely you are to see longer streaks of red and green... early in a seed its not so common to see three or four 10x in a row, but as you go deeper in a seed you will see them more often. Generally you tend to see larger multipliers the deeper you go in a seed.

The question is if you change seed can the new seed be designed in such a way that it upsets a successful strategy.

On 2/6/2020 at 7:57 AM, ThomasTV2 said:

Hey everyone! I have see SO many threads so I am going to be here to put a end to all of this. 

Scroll all the way down if you do not care about what I have to say and just see the simple answer, for those who want to stay and read, I am going to break this down into two sections. Section one will be, mathematically speaking. Section two will be the physiological effects of mixing up your seeds! So lets get started!

Mathematical Facts

So first things first, before you read anything in this section you should have a basic understating of this section of the Stake website! https://stake.com/provably-fair/overview

I will be going over some simple stuff below then summarize it for everyone! 

Client Seed

The client seed is what YOU provide to Stake, It is the factor you control. It can be in any form: Numbers, Symbols, and even emojies! 

This client seed is then converted to a number form so it can be used in the calculations. 

Server Seed

The server seed is the seed that Stake provides. This is to ensure that Stake is able to contribute to the result of the round, because without it we would be able to see if we won a bet or not before it was placed. 

The seed is displayed to us in a hashed version, this is for two main reasons: First it is a one way mathematical function (SHA256). This is in place to ensure no one will be able to reverse the seed and see the true server seed, because with this, we would be able to see the outcome of a game before we play. The other reason behind this is to be able to verify the server seed matches the hashed version. 

Nonce

The nonce is simply a number that increments as every new bet is made, this creates a completely new result each time, without having to generate a new client seed and server seed.

The implementation of nonce, ensures we remain committed to your client seed and server seed pair, whilst generating new results for each bet placed. (Yes I took this off the PF page because I cba to write this out). 

So what? 

With all of that, we can ensure that Stake does not rig any of the bets we place. All of that ensures a RANDOM result for each game, neither Stake or You (player) can predict the outcome. 

But Thomas, I am just unlucky will changing my seeds do anything? 

Not really. I mean, its random so it COULD in theory. But I would not rely on it. I personally do not change my seeds often. (More on why in the physiological effects section)

Physiological Effects

So this section will be short compared to the last one. We all ready know that Stake is not rigged. So, when you are losing a lot of bets does switching my seeds do anything? Yes and no. 

No because its random

But yes, because this can be compared to the placebo effect. (A placebo is an inert substance or treatment which is designed to have no therapeutic value. Common placebos include inert tablets, inert injections, sham surgery, and other procedures.). An example of a common placebo in the psychology field are: Giving a patient a sugar tablet and telling them it cures something. They think it fixes the problem so in their brain they start to change and contribute it to the fake pill. 

The same effect can be seen on Stake. Lets say you are on a red streak on dice. You are chasing the "49.5000" payout. You lose 50 bets, so you change your seeds and then hit it instantly. Your brain will think, wow I got to change my seeds more often, when in reality it was just luck. So you will start to think that changing your seeds will change the outcome, when it reality it does not. 

 

TL:DR: No, it does nothing. Stake is not stupid; they would not risk their reputation to "pull the lever" on some bets. Its just not a long term profit goal. 

Thanks for reading! Please feel free to comment questions and feedback! I hope this made sense, I threw this together out of annoyance of people talking about changing seeds makes them win. lol  

 

If an operator has both players seed and server seed and knowing that the nonce is sequential 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 this would allow an operator to know what the outcomes are for a particular player.

The operator may not be able to change outcomes but they can do a number of things to distract the players at times where they stand to benefit most from a game.

Sending them messages, tips or rain, friend requests, simulating lag in the game, slowing it down, speeding the game up, crashing their browser etc. Essentially distracting or breaking a players concentration in a game.

[jkd123]

Yes, it does. For me there is always new hope when changing seed, especially when facing red strike. Not always gve better result tought, but I feel more comfortable to change.

[Nicol3]

Mathematically, changing seeds prior to starting a specific roll/bet does matter. The end result of a single dice roll is not the same if you did not change the seeds and if you did. It would only be considered that it does nothing if the result of a specific roll with an unchanged sets of seeds is exactly the same result with a new set of seeds. Basically, they will differ. Since it is random and we have no idea of what result it will give, some people may conclude that it doesn't matter but in fact it does, it's just that we are not certain as to how it would impact the end result. It could either be a winning roll or the same non-winning result. That being said, those people saying changing seeds made them win, may actually be right. Furthermore, such personal statement shouldn't make anyone annoyed. Because it could be true not to mention the fact that if someone says that it has no direct implication to someone's life that it could actually make someone annoyed. Just saying! 😕

[Thepug]

On 2/9/2020 at 9:12 AM, jkd123 said:

Yes, it does. For me there is always new hope when changing seed, especially when facing red strike. Not always gve better result tought, but I feel more comfortable to change.

Same here for me, I usually do this and I have found that it works. A bad seed can cause a very harsh losing streak and it can be difficult for you to make profit, if you just don't believe in your seed. 

[cryptonesiac]

I don't change my seed, simply because it makes no difference: yes, the result will be different but I would still not know what's coming and if changing seed has a positive or negative effect on that

[Dp10011]

I say again that I don't believe that. I have already changed and the same thing continued for me. I think it got worse, because now nothing comes!  

So if you keep doing this, you will only have one more concern instead of focusing on the game!

[tae40127]

i think it cant bieeve that seed will jelp so you can check if it will show after bet that finish so i think when unluck change the game is the best way not change seed