Stake Originals

[Amps4life]

Can someone answer my question on how provablity fair works between originals.  If I am playing scarab and then I switch to plinko does it bypass the following spins that would technically happen in scarab or does it stay in order?  Thanks in advance.

[maverick528]

Every bet has a number called Nonce. It is sequential and increments by one on every bet you make on Stake originals.

 

After you change seeds, the first bet has Nonce 1, second bet Nonce 2 and so on, as long as you are playing in Stake originals.

If you were playing Scarab at Nonce 27, and in Nonce 28 you would get a 10000X multiplier but you decide to switch to plinko , drop one ball and return to Scarab, the 10000X multiplier is lost forever, but you will never know that ( actually after changing seeds, using the verification system of Stake you can investigate that "would be" bets).

 

[Amps4life]

Thanks that's a perfect explanation

[FreemanEU]

2 hours ago, maverick528 said:

Every bet has a number called Nonce. It is sequential and increments by one on every bet you make on Stake originals.

 

After you change seeds, the first bet has Nonce 1, second bet Nonce 2 and so on, as long as you are playing in Stake originals.

If you were playing Scarab at Nonce 27, and in Nonce 28 you would get a 10000X multiplier but you decide to switch to plinko , drop one ball and return to Scarab, the 10000X multiplier is lost forever, but you will never know that ( actually after changing seeds, using the verification system of Stake you can investigate that "would be" bets).

 

Thanks for a very good and understandable explanation. 

[Dexthesexx]

https://medium.com/bethash-io/bethash-how-provably-fair-isnt-as-fair-as-it-looks-1fd942baded5
found this link. Explaining that provably fair system has loopholes

[maverick528]

12 hours ago, Dexthesexx said:

https://medium.com/bethash-io/bethash-how-provably-fair-isnt-as-fair-as-it-looks-1fd942baded5
found this link. Explaining that provably fair system has loopholes

 

You must also use some judgement of your own when analyzing theoretical problems in the Provably Fair system.

For example, the Nonce overflow vulnerability that is mentioned in that article says that after (2 elevated to the 32 power) bets you will start getting the same results.

If you make 4000 bets an hour, you are making 35.040.000 bets in a year.

After 100 years betting non-stop, every second of the 24 hours making bets, you will make 3.504.000.000 bets. (actually a little bit more for the 29th february in leap years).

The 32th power of 2 is 4.294.967.296.

So, after betting a hundred years non-stop you still can not use the Nonce overflow vulnerability.

I think that its clear that this vulnerability does not have practical value....

 

[Allenzkie21]

23 hours ago, maverick528 said:

Every bet has a number called Nonce. It is sequential and increments by one on every bet you make on Stake originals.

 

After you change seeds, the first bet has Nonce 1, second bet Nonce 2 and so on, as long as you are playing in Stake originals.

If you were playing Scarab at Nonce 27, and in Nonce 28 you would get a 10000X multiplier but you decide to switch to plinko , drop one ball and return to Scarab, the 10000X multiplier is lost forever, but you will never know that ( actually after changing seeds, using the verification system of Stake you can investigate that "would be" bets).

 

Perfect Explanation 🔥😍and thats should do it😊Thanks bro🔥

23 hours ago, maverick528 said:

Every bet has a number called Nonce. It is sequential and increments by one on every bet you make on Stake originals.

 

After you change seeds, the first bet has Nonce 1, second bet Nonce 2 and so on, as long as you are playing in Stake originals.

If you were playing Scarab at Nonce 27, and in Nonce 28 you would get a 10000X multiplier but you decide to switch to plinko , drop one ball and return to Scarab, the 10000X multiplier is lost forever, but you will never know that ( actually after changing seeds, using the verification system of Stake you can investigate that "would be" bets).

 

Perfect explanation 🔥Thanks broo😊

[Dexthesexx]

Also if you guys realised that to verify bet you can only verify it on stake itself there’s no way to verify on a 3rd party system.

[Dexthesexx]

@Ghostnippleyes I totally agree I just realised this as well. This is why there so so many cases where good strategies in profit end up going bust. String of results that make you go bust will be implemented hence imo it’s not completely random

[tae40127]

for the truth who will invest to the be the casino owner for take the risk that so high and big money if they dont know that they will profit or lost or if they have broke what they did and how to find money to pay for player sure that need to know that they can get a lot of profit so it not fair or 50/50  confirm if one win also have one lost  it a zero some game like zerosomeedge hahah 

[Hydraulics]

@Dexthesexx You have the option of setting a completely random client seed for every single bet you place, Stake would have no way of knowing the outcome beforehand.

 

Stake gives you hashed server seed

You and stake both know the nonce

You think of random client seed and enter it

You see the server seed has hasnt changed after entering it

You place a bet

You verify that the hashed server seed matches after the bet

 

Not possible for Stake to know the outcome, and the only way for them to change the outcome of the bet in the above scenario is to change either the nonce or the server seed. Nonce would be obvious if changed, and the server seed won't match the hash if they change it before you place a bet

 

 

 

Also, a google search found a third party verifier pretty easily:

 

https://www.provablyfair.me/casino/stake-verifier/

[maverick528]

On 6/19/2021 at 4:07 AM, Dexthesexx said:

Also if you guys realised that to verify bet you can only verify it on stake itself there’s no way to verify on a 3rd party system.

You dont need a verifier program, you can verify it by hand as every step in the calculation is explained.

For making the SHA or the HMAC functions, there are a lot of websites to use, since they are well-known cryptographic functions that were not discovered or coded by Stake.

 

[dupeddonk]

On 6/20/2021 at 4:18 AM, Dexthesexx said:

@Ghostnippleyes I totally agree I just realised this as well. This is why there so so many cases where good strategies in profit end up going bust. String of results that make you go bust will be implemented hence imo it’s not completely random

Just responded to this in another thread, but since you posted it here also I'll post the same response so that people don't read this and think whoever wrote it knows what they're talking about. (they clearly don't)

 

Whoever wrote this seems to think that a provably fair system works like this:

1- Player Chooses Seed

2- Casino Chooses Seed (server seed)

3- Player confirms Wager

4- Outcome is revealed

If that were the case, then the Casino would have an easy opportunity to manipulate the outcome by taking the players seed into consideration before choosing the server seed.  It wouldn't be provably fair, like they said.

 

In reality, the Casino chooses the server seed before the player.

This is proven by providing the hash of the server seed to the player before the player seed is confirmed.

So, before you choose your seed, you are given a hash of the server seed.  This is why part of the verification process involves checking that the hashed server seed matches what was provided before the player seed was chosen.

This concept is the foundation of what makes a provably fair game provably fair.  

[Hydraulics]

Quote

 

However in the real world or normal scenario where a player makes multiple bets on a single seed it is entirely possible for a casino to know the results ahead of time and use a variety of measures to disrupt a players game.

 

It would be found out before long by people verifying their bets and their reputation as a casino would be destroyed.