Provably Fair Can Cheat Players. Proof and code provided.

[Losingdough]

On 12/10/2022 at 5:56 AM, dupeddonk said:

People claim it's rigged so that they can believe it's not their fault they lost.

To accept the fact that the game isn't rigged, you have to accept that it's nobody else's fault that you lost.  You have to accept responsibility for your actions.

When I explain how provably fair works, some people see that as a personal attack.   They don't want to accept what I'm saying because that would mean accepting responsibility for their actions.  And they're unable to make any logical argument to dispute my claim.  So they try and discredit me/divert the conversation with ad hominin attacks like claiming I work for stake.  

the quoted post doesnt relate but i just wanted your attention Dupe. so whats your take on Stake pretending to show Christmas cheer and appreciation for all the good little children by having 25 days of gifts in which you can not have any unless you average $1200 wager every single day of the promotion? just another ploy to make everyone give up any money they may have left at the end of the year. one big manipulation wrapped up in pretty christmas colors and glittery bullshit. what says you.

[dupeddonk]

45 minutes ago, Losingdough said:

the quoted post doesnt relate but i just wanted your attention Dupe. so whats your take on Stake pretending to show Christmas cheer and appreciation for all the good little children by having 25 days of gifts in which you can not have any unless you average $1200 wager every single day of the promotion? just another ploy to make everyone give up any money they may have left at the end of the year. one big manipulation wrapped up in pretty christmas colors and glittery bullshit. what says you.

What do I think about Stake not simply giving away money without any requirements because it's Christmas and instead requiring players to wager?  Come on now.  Every promotion Stake has ever done and will ever do is intended to generate profit.  Every cent they give away in monthly, weekly, bonus drop, twitter giveaway, reload is done because they believe it is a profitable investment for themselves and you would have to be pretty naive to think otherwise.  I don't have any issue with the ethics of having promotions like this on it's own.

I do think stake should have more resources available for players that are trying to control their gambling though.  Stuff like daily/weekly deposit or wager limits, individual wager limits (you can't make a wager more than $X), self excluding from specific games, etc.  

 

Now let me addresses something you said:

11 hours ago, Losingdough said:

stake uses this card shuffling system on their original games so the argument in j dawgs post holds true and relevant

This is obviously a false statement.  But I'll give you the benefit of doubt and assume that A) You put at least some effort into understanding what the shuffle system bitzino used 6 years ago and B) you aren't intentionally lying.

What makes you think stake uses the card shuffling implementation used 6 years ago by Bitzino where the outcome is influenced by the order of the "deck" which is determined non-transparently and before the sever/client seed is considered?

 

[southkoreli]

On 7/5/2022 at 5:56 AM, maverick528 said:

This is just crap, if you believe this, you dont use your brain at all.

First, I assume you understand how provably fair works, it guarantees that all the sequence of  results are set in stone when the two seeds are chosen, so the casino can not change the results in any way if you bet a big amount for example, or if you play always the same style.

In Stake, the same seed pair is used in all the original games excluding crash and slide,

If the casino can produce "rigged seeds" that make you lose for example in plinko by making lots of balls go to the center, that same seed pair applied to wheel for example does not produce the same "losing riggedness", and you can test it in the bet verifier. 

The casino HAS NO WAY of predicting which of the games you are gonna play because it is YOUR decision. 

The more important thing that invalidates the "rigged seeds" theory is that there are games like Baccarat or Roulette where you can bet on ALL OF THE POSSIBLE OUTCOMES. 

If the casino uses a rigged seed that makes the red colour hit more often than black, the casino does not know IF you are going to bet on red or in black. If some numbers in roulette always hit more often than the others, then you can win by betting at those numbers, any riggedness in the numbers generated can be used in your favor, because you are free to bet on any of the possible outcomes on every roll. Because the casino can NOT change the sequence of results that is set after the seed pair is picked.

Stake does not use a mersenne twister in the rng. It is just the output  of the cryptographic function HMAC SHA256.

Plus, there is no way Stake can rig the sequence because 1) you can choose the client seed that you like and Stake has no way to predict your choice. Different client seeds produces different sequences. 2) the hash of the next server seed is shown to you before you set your client seed, this means the casino can not change or adjust the server seed after you decided your own client seed,

 

 

 

 

didn't surprise that paragraph wrote by a Mod after reading 1st sentence

[jungl3]

4 hours ago, dupeddonk said:

@jungl3, you seem to have enough braincells to comprehend what @J-Dawgdid in the op of this thread.  Are you willing to speak up for the truth?  Or are you just going to support any argument that it's rigged and attack anyone that says it's not regardless of whether or not the argument is based in reality.

I genuinely believe that there's some fuckery going on with stake's provably fair games. I've gambled for many years in many different places and stake never seemed to have any actual exposure, no matter how I played (I'm talking about originals here, for the sake of clarity). Winnable multipliers seem very much tied to bet size, and relative to recent deposits and losses. These are further influenced by a maximum wager or play time. That's my opinion and is based on my experience here.

I'm in support of anybody who questions stake, and raises any concerns or inconsistencies that they find or can think of, because it might help somebody and stop them from throwing themself into the abyss. It might plant a seed of doubt which saves somebody's life, as cheesy as that sounds. I don't think outright lies or disinformation are a good thing in that fight, but a lot of people look for reason in situations where there is none. In this case, I don't buy the legitimacy of stake or their games, and I empathise with people looking for answers. Sometimes things seem to click and we jump to conclusions, but that's only human.

Do I think @J-Dawg had the right info in his opening post? No, I don't and I've said that before. In this thread I was arguing with you for sport mostly, but you generally paint stake in a good light and I don't want that to be the concluding message in any thread for the reasons I stated before - to open others eyes to the possibility that all may not be as it seems and to make them think twice before throwing anything they have left at this place.

Standing up for the truth and only looking at hard data is admirable in almost every situation, but I don't know why you'd do it here by choice. Respectfully, if you're on the spectrum or similarly compelled, that's fair enough. Or if you see a blatant lie, that's fair enough, too, but why do you care so much?

I know for a fact that stake ruins lives. I'm sure many people have died as a direct or indirect result of gambling on stake. Broken homes, relationships, trust, yada yada.. none of this is unique to stake, but paradoxically, what attracted many people here has also made them slaves: no kyc, no affordability checks, no limits (self imposed or otherwise), no humanity when it comes to an addiction with a seriously high suicide rate other than a crappy little icon at the bottom of the page and a convoluted self exclusion mechanism. Combine that with what appears to me to be greed on top of greed, with games that just don't seem to play fair, questionable giveaways, the shutting down of those who go stick their neck out too far, and I feel obligated to hang around and throw some shit at the walls even after I've stopped gambling here.

That's my motivation. What's yours,  @dupeddonk?

[dupeddonk]

1 hour ago, jungl3 said:

Do I think @J-Dawg had the right info in his opening post? No, I don't and I've said that before. 

He found a 6 year old post on another forum about Casino that no longer exists using an algorithm that is no longer used, changed a few lines to make it look like it was about Stake today, and then posted it as if he had written it himself.  He was intentionally trying to deceive people.

That's a far cry from "he didn't have the right info in his opening post".

1 hour ago, jungl3 said:

In this thread I was arguing with you for sport mostly

You mean in bad faith.  Because that's really the only way to continue to debate something when you don't have logic on your side.  

Pathetic really.

[jungl3]

24 minutes ago, dupeddonk said:

You mean in bad faith.  Because that's really the only way to continue to debate something when you don't have logic on your side.  

Pathetic really.

I'm tempted to take the bait, but I'm not paid per character and you won't even answer my questions, @dupeddonk

I didn't know you were a woman.

[kolakops11]

oh is that real?

[Losingdough]

11 hours ago, dupeddonk said:

This is obviously a false statement.  But I'll give you the benefit of doubt and assume that A) You put at least some effort into understanding what the shuffle system bitzino used 6 years ago and B) you aren't intentionally lying.

What makes you think stake uses the card shuffling implementation used 6 years ago by Bitzino where the outcome is influenced by the order of the "deck" which is determined non-transparently and before the sever/client seed is considered?

I actually have researched the provably fair thing a great deal throughout my being at stake. Like I said to you before on many occasion if I didnt have reason based on a whole lot of experience with playing stake originals i would not be compelled to question Stakes claim of provably fair. And I have posted data and they took it down. It turns out the site that independently has stake and a few other casinos worked in so that you can check the outcome as it turns out are not trying to keep the casinos fair, instead they work for stake. I sent many emails with so much data to them asking them to please explain how my personal gameplay is provably fair and they chose to ignore me every time. Ive posted my data on the official sub reddit and Eddies better half took it down and when i asked him why on earth would he do that ? I didnt break any rules of the sub so it seems to me the only reason you took down my post was because it challenges the validity of stakesw claim to fairness. I was very polite and again broke no rules, His reaction to that question was not to respond at all but instead ban me from the reddit sub permanently. I have posted more then once pages of my gameplay in which you clearly , in black and white see that the very instant i raise my bet substantiallly i get a losing streak of unthinkable proportion. like when i posted data of my playing the original wheel game in which I averaged about 1 in ten hits on high volatility , 10 segments. for 300 bets and then I raised my bet to $20 and spun the wheel 320 times without a single hit when its supposed to hit 1 in 10 on average. they took that down. so like i said before , and whether you willl ever admit it of course I cant prove that the games are rigged because i dont have what stake has which is thier seed hash, my seed and the nonce and the code, Im not a mathmetican nor a coder however when my very real and very honest experience has been this countless times , over and over, I suspect you and whoever else is dedicated to discrediting anybody and everybody whose experiences simply dont fall in line with stakes claim of fairness, will never admit that indeed its beyond the realm of bad luck and something else is going on here. Ive posted 1.00 limbo result back to back 3 times in a row, two times happened to me. youve yet to use your superior grasp of probability and knowlege of stake games to comment on that . it seems the fact that really challenge the narrative of fairness go ignored often here.. So ill admit that I have said stake is guilty of things like the card shuffle deal without knowing or having any proof , not that i claimed to have proof ever. and im quite sure that it has absolutely no effect on anything if i make such a claim. its like so what ? what do you do when someone is lying to you Dupe and you know they are but they will never admit it? I find it very difficult to operate in such dishonesy. Im not equipt to play that game, Its not a legal court so why should I respect the rules as if it were. clearly the opposition doesnt respect the rules either. Nor do they respect me as a loyal customer. How much money does one single customer have to shell out before they are treated with respect around here. cause il tell you ive spent well over 100k with stake. To them that is nothing im sure but i live in the real world where if you contribute that kind of money to a company for an experience which they increasingly fail to deliver, you better damn well be convinced that they will try harder to retain your patronage. But you obviously dont view these things in the same light. Since you responded to my annoyance with this years 25 days of xmas promotion. I mean beings you fail to see how its absurd that stake has now increased the wager requirment to $10500  week to even get anything just shows me further that you obviiously work for stake. either that or you get some rather nice benefits for sucking on the stake cock. but that is kinda the same thing. weekly and monthly bonuses have gone to shit. the vip levels mean absolutely nothing at all. if stake will turn on the customers who have paid into their pockets with the expectation that there would be lasting benefits for doing so on increasing levels, showing yet again they dont appreciate loyal paying customers ,in fact they dont even respect their own commitments to us, why in the hell would you be so  steadfast in defending their honesty. IM done, this is so stupid. You know it , i know it. if you show the data they shut you down, if you question the fairness they send in the Dupe for damage control. I mean dude its classic soviet propaganda tactics so i think you are KGB. lol . merry Christmas Dupe. By the way do you even gamble lol/ i doubt it.

7 hours ago, jungl3 said:

I'm tempted to take the bait, but I'm not paid per character and you won't even answer my questions, @dupeddonk

I didn't know you were a woman.

I suspected she was all along. Me think the lady doth protest while avoiding sincere and relevant quesioins. So dupe, again please, for the audience is hanging on the edge of their seat, what is your motivation for the endless blowjob you so generously provide for the stake cock?

[BGjack1]

It's getting interesting, i will watch from the shadows for Dupe's response.

[Losingdough]

11 minutes ago, BGjack1 said:

It's getting interesting, i will watch from the shadows for Dupe's response.

please dont adorn yourself with only a trenchcoat . I wouldnt want the Dupe to notice you lurking in the shadows thus  getting all flustered and moist,hence losing focus of his intended role in this jaded production,

 

[dupeddonk]

3 hours ago, Losingdough said:

I actually have researched the provably fair thing a great deal throughout my being at stake.

And you still think that Stake uses the same method that Bitzino used 6 years ago where they base everything on a deck of cards that's pre shuffled behind the scenes?

Come on now.

 

[freya]

I think people who have multiple accounts they use the same group chat, every time the bonus code appears they will post it and share it with each other, it doesn't matter who can solve the code, just one of them that's enough

[dupeddonk]

3 hours ago, freya said:

I think people who have multiple accounts they use the same group chat, every time the bonus code appears they will post it and share it with each other, it doesn't matter who can solve the code, just one of them that's enough

Sir.  This is an Arby's.

[freya]

48 minutes ago, dupeddonk said:

Sir.  This is an Arby's.

what's that mean duped? I'm quite new here so I don't know what you're talking about

[dupeddonk]

3 hours ago, freya said:

what's that mean duped? I'm quite new here so I don't know what you're talking about

I was just being a jerk because your post has nothing to do with this thread, and there are tons of threads where people are complaining about bonus drops.  It's an internet joke: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sir-this-is-an-arbys

 

You're right about people being in tg channels sharing codes though.

 

[sixtyoreighty]

how they can do it 

[Vilka]

20 hours ago, Losingdough said:

I actually have researched the provably fair thing a great deal throughout my being at stake. Like I said to you before on many occasion if I didnt have reason based on a whole lot of experience with playing stake originals i would not be compelled to question Stakes claim of provably fair. And I have posted data and they took it down. It turns out the site that independently has stake and a few other casinos worked in so that you can check the outcome as it turns out are not trying to keep the casinos fair, instead they work for stake. I sent many emails with so much data to them asking them to please explain how my personal gameplay is provably fair and they chose to ignore me every time. Ive posted my data on the official sub reddit and Eddies better half took it down and when i asked him why on earth would he do that ? I didnt break any rules of the sub so it seems to me the only reason you took down my post was because it challenges the validity of stakesw claim to fairness. I was very polite and again broke no rules, His reaction to that question was not to respond at all but instead ban me from the reddit sub permanently. I have posted more then once pages of my gameplay in which you clearly , in black and white see that the very instant i raise my bet substantiallly i get a losing streak of unthinkable proportion. like when i posted data of my playing the original wheel game in which I averaged about 1 in ten hits on high volatility , 10 segments. for 300 bets and then I raised my bet to $20 and spun the wheel 320 times without a single hit when its supposed to hit 1 in 10 on average. they took that down. so like i said before , and whether you willl ever admit it of course I cant prove that the games are rigged because i dont have what stake has which is thier seed hash, my seed and the nonce and the code, Im not a mathmetican nor a coder however when my very real and very honest experience has been this countless times , over and over, I suspect you and whoever else is dedicated to discrediting anybody and everybody whose experiences simply dont fall in line with stakes claim of fairness, will never admit that indeed its beyond the realm of bad luck and something else is going on here. Ive posted 1.00 limbo result back to back 3 times in a row, two times happened to me. youve yet to use your superior grasp of probability and knowlege of stake games to comment on that . it seems the fact that really challenge the narrative of fairness go ignored often here.. So ill admit that I have said stake is guilty of things like the card shuffle deal without knowing or having any proof , not that i claimed to have proof ever. and im quite sure that it has absolutely no effect on anything if i make such a claim. its like so what ? what do you do when someone is lying to you Dupe and you know they are but they will never admit it? I find it very difficult to operate in such dishonesy. Im not equipt to play that game, Its not a legal court so why should I respect the rules as if it were. clearly the opposition doesnt respect the rules either. Nor do they respect me as a loyal customer. How much money does one single customer have to shell out before they are treated with respect around here. cause il tell you ive spent well over 100k with stake. To them that is nothing im sure but i live in the real world where if you contribute that kind of money to a company for an experience which they increasingly fail to deliver, you better damn well be convinced that they will try harder to retain your patronage. But you obviously dont view these things in the same light. Since you responded to my annoyance with this years 25 days of xmas promotion. I mean beings you fail to see how its absurd that stake has now increased the wager requirment to $10500  week to even get anything just shows me further that you obviiously work for stake. either that or you get some rather nice benefits for sucking on the stake cock. but that is kinda the same thing. weekly and monthly bonuses have gone to shit. the vip levels mean absolutely nothing at all. if stake will turn on the customers who have paid into their pockets with the expectation that there would be lasting benefits for doing so on increasing levels, showing yet again they dont appreciate loyal paying customers ,in fact they dont even respect their own commitments to us, why in the hell would you be so  steadfast in defending their honesty. IM done, this is so stupid. You know it , i know it. if you show the data they shut you down, if you question the fairness they send in the Dupe for damage control. I mean dude its classic soviet propaganda tactics so i think you are KGB. lol . merry Christmas Dupe. By the way do you even gamble lol/ i doubt it.

I suspected she was all along. Me think the lady doth protest while avoiding sincere and relevant quesioins. So dupe, again please, for the audience is hanging on the edge of their seat, what is your motivation for the endless blowjob you so generously provide for the stake cock?

Just a shadow here. I want to point out that anyone who thinks that « dupeddonk » guy doesn’t work for stake or doesn’t get credit for his biased takes on this subject, is a dumb idiot. I red the whole thread and the manipulation this guy is using to derail the initial subject is mind blowing. I hope people will keep updating this thread so it gets more views.

As a platinum 6 myself, i experienced the same thing you guys had and there’s no doubt in my mind that Stake is cheating behind our back and by extend ruining people’s lives.

Now back to the shadow.

[jungl3]

13 hours ago, dupeddonk said:

I was just being a jerk

Another day, another dollar.

 

"It's better to be without a book than to believe a book entirely" - Chinese proverb.

 

[ByteMeTwice]

4 hours ago, jungl3 said:

Another day, another dollar.

 

"It's better to be without a book than to believe a book entirely" - Chinese proverb.

 

I'm almost sorry I have him/her blocked, though I'm seeing enough to get the gist...

[dupeddonk]

15 hours ago, Vilka said:

Just a shadow here. I want to point out that anyone who thinks that « dupeddonk » guy doesn’t work for stake or doesn’t get credit for his biased takes on this subject, is a dumb idiot. I red the whole thread and the manipulation this guy is using to derail the initial subject is mind blowing. I hope people will keep updating this thread so it gets more views.

As a platinum 6 myself, i experienced the same thing you guys had and there’s no doubt in my mind that Stake is cheating behind our back and by extend ruining people’s lives.

Now back to the shadow.

Did you read the part where I showed proof that OP copied a post from 6 years ago on another forum about a casino that no longer exists using a method that was never used by Stake and then changed a few lines to make it read as if Stake does use the method?

Funny how the same people defending that guy are also the ones claiming it as fact that I work for stake (I don't) and are making claims of outcomes being manipulated while unable to have any sort of rational discussion about how the outcomes are actually determined.  

"I gambled a lot, I know it's rigged, but I refuse to educate myself on how the outcomes are determined and I will attack or 'argue for sport/in bad faith' if you disagree with me" is so lame.

[xrflive]

Plz dupe since you work for Stake can you rig plinko for me? I know you can do it.

Again and again and again, but all your theories falls down with a simple explanation:

To understand how these systems work, it's helpful to have some basic knowledge of how random numbers are generated in computer systems.

Random numbers are typically generated using a mathematical algorithm known as a "random number generator" (RNG). This algorithm takes an input value, known as a "seed," and uses it to produce a sequence of seemingly random numbers. The seed value is important because it determines the sequence of numbers that the RNG will produce. For example, if two different players use the same seed value, they will both get the same sequence of random numbers.

In a provably fair system, the seed value is typically provided to the player before the game begins. This allows the player to verify that the sequence of random numbers used in the game was determined by a fair and transparent process. To do this, the player can use the provided seed value as input to the RNG, and compare the sequence of numbers produced by the RNG to the sequence of numbers used in the game. If the two sequences match, the player can be confident that the game was fair and the outcome was determined by a random process.

In addition to the seed value, the player is also typically provided with the "hash" of the final outcome of the game. A hash is a mathematical representation of the outcome, and it can be used to verify that the outcome was not changed after the game was played. This is important because it allows the player to be sure that the outcome was not tampered with after the game was finished.

To summarize, provably fair systems are designed to provide players with the necessary information to verify the fairness of a game. This involves providing the player with a seed value, which is used to generate a sequence of random numbers, and a hash of the final outcome, which is used to verify that the outcome was not tampered with. By using these values, players can be confident that the game was fair and the outcome was determined by a random process.

 

 

And if this is too complicated to read it, try in this way:

Imagine that you and your friend are playing a game where you each take turns rolling a die. The person who rolls the highest number wins the game. To make sure that the game is fair, you decide to use a special tool that will help you choose a random number. This tool is called a "random number generator" (RNG), and it can be used to choose a random number just like you would roll a die.

Before you start the game, you and your friend each choose a number and write it down on a piece of paper. These numbers are called "seeds," and they will be used to help the RNG choose a random number. Then, you and your friend take turns using the RNG to choose a number, just like you would roll a die. The person who chooses the highest number wins the game.

To make sure that the game was fair, you and your friend can check the numbers that the RNG chose. You can do this by using the seeds that you wrote down at the beginning of the game and plugging them into the RNG. If the numbers that the RNG produces match the numbers that were used in the game, you can be confident that the game was fair and the outcome was determined by a random process.

In summary, a provably fair system is a tool that helps people play fair games by using a special tool to choose random numbers. This tool is called an RNG, and it uses "seeds" to help it choose random numbers. By using the seeds and the RNG, people can be confident that the game was fair and the outcome was determined by a random process.

[dupeddonk]

15 minutes ago, xrflive said:

Plz dupe since you work for Stake can you rig plinko for me? I know you can do it.

Again and again and again, but all your theories falls down with a simple explanation:

To understand how these systems work, it's helpful to have some basic knowledge of how random numbers are generated in computer systems.

Random numbers are typically generated using a mathematical algorithm known as a "random number generator" (RNG). This algorithm takes an input value, known as a "seed," and uses it to produce a sequence of seemingly random numbers. The seed value is important because it determines the sequence of numbers that the RNG will produce. For example, if two different players use the same seed value, they will both get the same sequence of random numbers.

In a provably fair system, the seed value is typically provided to the player before the game begins. This allows the player to verify that the sequence of random numbers used in the game was determined by a fair and transparent process. To do this, the player can use the provided seed value as input to the RNG, and compare the sequence of numbers produced by the RNG to the sequence of numbers used in the game. If the two sequences match, the player can be confident that the game was fair and the outcome was determined by a random process.

In addition to the seed value, the player is also typically provided with the "hash" of the final outcome of the game. A hash is a mathematical representation of the outcome, and it can be used to verify that the outcome was not changed after the game was played. This is important because it allows the player to be sure that the outcome was not tampered with after the game was finished.

To summarize, provably fair systems are designed to provide players with the necessary information to verify the fairness of a game. This involves providing the player with a seed value, which is used to generate a sequence of random numbers, and a hash of the final outcome, which is used to verify that the outcome was not tampered with. By using these values, players can be confident that the game was fair and the outcome was determined by a random process.

 

 

And if this is too complicated to read it, try in this way:

Imagine that you and your friend are playing a game where you each take turns rolling a die. The person who rolls the highest number wins the game. To make sure that the game is fair, you decide to use a special tool that will help you choose a random number. This tool is called a "random number generator" (RNG), and it can be used to choose a random number just like you would roll a die.

Before you start the game, you and your friend each choose a number and write it down on a piece of paper. These numbers are called "seeds," and they will be used to help the RNG choose a random number. Then, you and your friend take turns using the RNG to choose a number, just like you would roll a die. The person who chooses the highest number wins the game.

To make sure that the game was fair, you and your friend can check the numbers that the RNG chose. You can do this by using the seeds that you wrote down at the beginning of the game and plugging them into the RNG. If the numbers that the RNG produces match the numbers that were used in the game, you can be confident that the game was fair and the outcome was determined by a random process.

In summary, a provably fair system is a tool that helps people play fair games by using a special tool to choose random numbers. This tool is called an RNG, and it uses "seeds" to help it choose random numbers. By using the seeds and the RNG, people can be confident that the game was fair and the outcome was determined by a random process.

They aren't interested in any explanation of how the outcome is actually determined, only explanations on how it's rigged.

It doesn't matter if the explanation on how outcomes are actually determined are reasonable and fact based, or if the explanation on how it's rigged is an obvious lie. 

"I gamble a lot and I know it's rigged" becomes "Every claim that it's rigged is true and anyone that disagrees is an idiot or works for stake."

Willful ignorance.

 

[xrflive]

10 minutes ago, dupeddonk said:

They aren't interested in any explanation of how the outcome is actually determined, only explanations on how it's rigged.

It doesn't matter if the explanation on how outcomes are actually determined are reasonable and fact based, or if the explanation on how it's rigged is an obvious lie. 

"I gamble a lot and I know it's rigged" becomes "Every claim that it's rigged is true and anyone that disagrees is an idiot or works for stake."

Willful ignorance.

 

And yet they still play every day 

[jungl3]

1 hour ago, dupeddonk said:

They aren't interested in any explanation of how the outcome is actually determined, only explanations on how it's rigged.

You've said your piece about provably fair a million and one times. It's fantastic that you're happy with that as absolute proof of fair results, that it absolves stake of any possible manipulation. It stands to reason that people should win once in a while, but many don't, despite how magically fucking random the provably fair system is. And yes, the entire world knows that there's such a thing as edge and that casinos win in the long run, before you curl another of your tropes out.

Why put so much time and energy into this, duped? Why do you care what anybody says or thinks about stake or their games? You really seem to take it personally and I don't think that can be healthy.

This is a joke, just in case you get upset: did you call for reinforcements or did your handler think you were doing such a shit job in here that they sent in @xrflive ?

1 hour ago, dupeddonk said:

"I gamble a lot and I know it's rigged" becomes "Every claim that it's rigged is true and anyone that disagrees is an idiot or works for stake."

Did that really touch a nerve, duped? 😅

 

7 hours ago, ByteMeTwice said:

I'm almost sorry I have him/her blocked, though I'm seeing enough to get the gist...

If you've seen one post, you've seen them all 🤷‍♂️

[dupeddonk]

51 minutes ago, jungl3 said:

You've said your piece about provably fair a million and one times. It's fantastic that you're happy with that as absolute proof of fair results, that it absolves stake of any possible manipulation. It stands to reason that people should win once in a while, but many don't, despite how magically fucking random the provably fair system is. And yes, the entire world knows that there's such a thing as edge and that casinos win in the long run, before you curl another of your tropes out.

I've never said there's no way for stake manipulate results, there is.  Even while using the PF system in place.  And I've listed them many times.  The truth seems far less important than insulting me or pushing your agenda that you're being cheated by Stake.  You argue in bad faith (you call it arguing "for sport")  and this thread is a perfect example (there are others as well).  

@J-Dawg copied a post from 6 years ago on another forum about a casino that hasn't existed in years using a method that was never used by Stake and then changed a few lines to make it read as if Stake uses the same method and made this thread so he could share it here.  

Provably Fair Can Cheat Players. Proof and code provided.

Your response to @J-Dawglying  is to defend him by attacking me for calling him out on it.

No reasonable person can defend your response.  A lie is a lie, it shouldn't matter if you and the liar agree on the point the liar is trying to make, they aren't helping you by making it with lies, in this case it just adds to the already long list of ridiculous examples of "proof" that's actually bullshit.

 

 

Pathetic.