Fairness

[kix2288]

Client seed can be edited and submitted to start a new hash, but this game is a multiplayer game, which means it's absolutely useless to change that seed. Am i understand I this correctly? In other single player games i understand how changing it is like pushing a reset and randomize button, but how does it work in crash?

[jungl3]

Google 'bitcointalk stunna crash seeding' and you'll see some threads there.

They pre-announce and then use a bitcoin block hash when it's been mined.

Slide is the same thing.

[kix2288]

@jungl3 ok i googled and understood the server hash part, but i still don't understand how fair it is. Now they created a new seeding event, me as a user i go and create a new client seed, how does that change the results? it is a multiplier game at the end of the day, we're all looking at the same screen, right? so if that's the case then i wouldn't be changing it just to myself, it would be for everyone else, which is the part i don't understand

[jungl3]

The client seed that you choose isn't used/doesn't affect the result since everybody is playing the same game of crash (or slide).

The block hash is used as the player seed, I believe.

Stake generate a sequence of 10 million hashes before knowing the hash of the block that was chosen, each calculated from the hex representation of the preceding one.

I think it's just those two things that are used to calculate the results.

@dupeddonk - is that how it works? It's all provably fair and amazing, right?

In theory it should be fair, but there have been occasions that the site goes offline or networking issues (ddos or otherwise) have meant people couldn't cash out or the target they had set for cashout wasn't applied, so they lost, and stake didn't refund them or apologise without a fight. Also, rare high values have been hit by crash when nobody could make a bet (manually or automated), which some people might see as lost opportunity or lost RTP.

It's up to you if you think stake might manufacture those situations or if they're just unfortunate events that couldn't be avoided.

 

 

 

[dupeddonk]

2 hours ago, jungl3 said:

@dupeddonk - is that how it works?

Close. They have to know the hash of the "first" block to generate the sequence though.

It's kind of overkill and would still be provably fair for the most part without this step proving they had no influence on the initial seed, but they pick a future Bitcoin block that hasn't been mined yet, and announce it publicly that it will be used as their seed, then after it's mined they take the hash of the new block and hash it.  Then they take that hash and hash it again, and again, I think 10 million times.

There are a few other things going on, but those are the basics.  You end up with 10 million sha256 hashes, and they are used for crash or slide results in reverse order.

It's a pretty cool concept. Every outcome is the hash of the previous outcome. You can pretty easily generate the last n results from just a single hash, but because it's a one way algorithm you'll never be able to find out what the next one is... Unless they forget to stop the game before we get to the original hash that was announced publicly.

[jungl3]

Thanks @dupeddonk . Our friend @kix2288 is slinging his telegram info around the forum now, so he probably won't be around to show his appreciation for your explanation.

 

[Doye08]

Stake et impartial