Stake removing a bonus and lying about it

[Tarrterr]

So recently I got fed up with all the bullshit Stake has been pulling lately.

I opened an AskGamblers complaint about my permanent reloads being removed, since I lost quite a bit of money wagering to receive it.

They finally replied and called me an abuser. I have never abused any promotion or bonus so this is a baseless claim. 

They had the guts to lie straight to my face and it's clear when you read these conversations with my VIP host and Eddie.

"Based on your gameplay dropping quite a lot"

"Wait until you wager $50k in a single emonth or level up again"

 

Had I abused anything, they would have instantly claimed so. They only pulled the "abuser" card once I actually made a complaint and they couldn't say "sorry we have removed permanent reloads because it saves us money"

For context, this is what they replied to the complaint with 

[dupeddonk]

If they said you're a bonus abuser I would guess they think you're using multiple accounts to take advantage of promotions and bonuses while playing very little.

[Tarrterr]

3 minutes ago, dupeddonk said:

If they said you're a bonus abuser I would guess they think you're using multiple accounts to take advantage of promotions and bonuses while playing very little.

Considering my alt is banned that is unlikely (even before it being banned, I didn't claim any bonuses on it, and it was banned before I received my permanent reloads)

On my main account I usually have 10-30k wagered every month (except lately since I stopped playing regularly, but the bonuses were removed in December), but I lose a far greater % of my wagered amount than I would from house edge (meaning I either make risky bets or am unlucky, which removes the possibility of me "safe" wagering to appear legit) 

I generally never use any other promotions except monthly and weekly, which are meant to be claimed so I don't see the abuse there.

I say generally because I used to take part in Telegram challenges, but that was strictly on this account. Also a couple forum challenges, both of which on just this account.

[Ayam99]

u r not alone bro..ive been there..6 month ago i got same thing..its really dissapointing @Edward ..honestly speaking...been supporting u for a very long time even before the existing of stake... u call us from Pd to support stake..we help with all the suggestion n improvement..now this is how we r treated..the promised that made before is not fulfilled..im sad to see this.. (ps @Edwardhappy birthday in advance btw )

[Notnick3]

Eddie needs a 5th mansion so that means no bonus 4 u

[jmrtgnzlo]

maybe you break one of the rules 

[Tarrterr]

Also in my opinion they're caught red handed. If they say it's due to low wager on every occasion I contact them, and claim it's abuse when I open a complaint it's pretty clear.

They know they can't publicly use their usual excuses on a complaint so they have to make something up. The person replying probably didn't know I had this much proof.

Anyway the last point you made is interesting, haven't really thought about that.

[ktinho]

You have had multiple accounts which you discuss in previous threads. I am going to assume they will use that as evidence of abuse.

It makes no sense for any business to explain how a person broke their terms and conditions  of abuse in great detail - as this will inevitably disclose  information upon how a player is caught.

People will use this to circumvent the system.

That is regular practice and whilst frustrating for individuals who are totally unaware  of what they have done - it makes sense in the grand scheme.

IF they have made a mistake they will admit to it  - it makes good PR and also hits back at the 'scammers' and 'liars' tags that often come up with these cases.

Best of luck

[Tarrterr]

8 minutes ago, ktinho said:

You have had multiple accounts which you discuss in previous threads. I am going to assume they will use that as evidence of abuse.

It makes no sense for any business to explain how a person broke their terms and conditions  of abuse in great detail - as this will inevitably disclose  information upon how a player is caught.

People will use this to circumvent the system.

That is regular practice and whilst frustrating for individuals who are totally unaware  of what they have done - it makes sense in the grand scheme.

IF they have made a mistake they will admit to it  - it makes good PR and also hits back at the 'scammers' and 'liars' tags that often come up with these cases.

Best of luck

The thing is that "offense" was made when it was allowed plus before I received the bonus. Since the account has been banned for a long time, it is in no way associated with this problem.

Also it was also always about me wagering too little, it was never about abuse. The fact that they bring this up a year after the account was banned shows they're desperate.

Either way this forum post was made for the users. If by technicality I have no legal case due to doing something in the past that is now not allowed, not a problem. At least the common user will understand what lengths Stake will go to if they want something to go their way.

The problem with this case is, it wouldn't be good PR because everyone that wagers less than 50k per month lost their reloads, not just me. Me winning this case would mean everyone is entitled to receive their bonus back.

 

Thanks either way!

[ktinho]

12 minutes ago, Tarrterr said:

The thing is that "offense" was made when it was allowed plus before I received the bonus. Since the account has been banned for a long time, it is in no way associated with this problem.

Also it was also always about me wagering too little, it was never about abuse. The fact that they bring this up a year after the account was banned shows they're desperate.

Either way this forum post was made for the users. If by technicality I have no legal case due to doing something in the past that is now not allowed, not a problem. At least the common user will understand what lengths Stake will go to if they want something to go their way.

The problem with this case is, it wouldn't be bad PR because everyone that wagers less than 50k per month lost their reloads, not just me. Me winning this case would mean everyone is entitled to receive their bonus back.

 

Thanks either way!

Perhaps then they feel you are abusing the bonus by seeing how little you can wager to receive it? 

on your other complaint  - they will say you were provided with information on how to start the self exclusion process - which is automated. They will say you chose not to follow that process. They can't self exclude you via live support without a cooldown period in case the person doing the self exclusion is not in fact you. Nor can the CEO self exclude you via email.

 

I am not saying you are wrong they are right or vice versa.  just these are the replies i am expecting to your complaints. I have seen other similar complaints.

[Tarrterr]

10 minutes ago, ktinho said:

Perhaps then they feel you are abusing the bonus by seeing how little you can wager to receive it? 

on your other complaint  - they will say you were provided with information on how to start the self exclusion process - which is automated. They will say you chose not to follow that process. They can't self exclude you via live support without a cooldown period in case the person doing the self exclusion is not in fact you. Nor can the CEO self exclude you via email.

 

I am not saying you are wrong they are right or vice versa.  just these are the replies i am expecting to your complaints. I have seen other similar complaints.

Yeah I'm aware of everything they could reply with. Considering I contacted them via email with no response as via live chat telegram and chat, it is without a doubt a proper self exclusion request.

As AskGamblers themselves say, delay tactics are not allowed, also if a casino representative is notified that a user is addicted, they must take proper action to self exclude the user. These files are not public, but I made it very clear that I'm extremely addicted and it's affecting my life. I even received a reply which was just giving me like 30 bucks so I can gamble more and further my addiction. This is entered as proof on my complaint.

2 minutes ago, Ghostnipple said:

Previous TOS did not prohibit the use of multiple accounts. The stake team encouraged their creation and use in the past. As a result most players created more than one account many invested heavily in bringing those accounts to platinum and beyond. The owners of stake profited nicely from those alt accounts. So to label those players as abusers is grossly unfair.

Players who were encouraged to create and wager on those accounts suddenly had them taken away from them without any compensation for their material loss.

If you ask a reasonably minded person which party is the abuser in this case, i would sincerely doubt they'd say the player.

Yeah, that's why I said "offense", since it wasn't an actual offense. It's extremely unfair but I'm doing my best to help other users not use this service and fall into the trap. I'm not expecting any of this money that I'm requesting, but I'm not expecting them to get away with it either 

[ktinho]

@Tarrterr did you ever self exclude and then reverse  it after the cooldown period? just asking because you said " none of that cooldown bs" or something like that in your complaint. The self exclusion complaint should be the focus of your attention.

You appear to have more evidence to support your case. In most other casinos i know of you would have been excluded or had your account closed as soon as you enquired about self excluding. 

 

Keep us informed.

 

 

[Tarrterr]

2 minutes ago, Ghostnipple said:

i see an increasing need for a body that represents the needs of the players. Fragmented as they have been players with legitimate concerns are easily ignored, dismissed or abused.

The individual currently mismanaging stake is creating the environment for such an organisation to emerge. The more the abusive practices continue the more likely a players will form that organisation. its just a matter of how much abuse they are prepared to take. 

Yeah it's only a matter of time. It is either an extremely incompetent person managing stake or they're planning on selling/abandoning the project in which case they don't care about their reputation 

Just now, ktinho said:

@Tarrterr did you ever self exclude and then reverse  it after the cooldown period? just asking because you said " none of that cooldown bs" or something like that in your complaint. The self exclusion complaint should be the focus of your attention.

You appear to have more evidence to support your case. In most other casinos i know of you would have been excluded or had your account closed as soon as you enquired about self excluding. 

 

Keep us informed.

 

 

Nope I've never reversed a self exclusion as I never received one. I said none of the cooldown bs because a mod in chat talked about that, and since I'm severely addicted, waiting 1 day will build my addiction back up, I'll deposit and won't go forth with it as I'll have money on my account. 

 

Even if I did (which i didn't) my long letters explaining my situation and my addiction would make any self respecting casino ban my account.

[ktinho]

6 minutes ago, Ghostnipple said:

i see an increasing need for a body that represents the needs of the players. Fragmented as they have been players with legitimate concerns are easily ignored, dismissed or abused.

The individual currently mismanaging stake is creating the environment for such an organisation to emerge. The more the abusive practices continue the more likely a players will form that organisation. its just a matter of how much abuse they are prepared to take. 

These places already exist. ThePOGG,casinomeister and askgamblers all fight and converse with casinos on players behalf. I imagine there are more that i am unaware of.

8 minutes ago, Tarrterr said:

Yeah it's only a matter of time. It is either an extremely incompetent person managing stake or they're planning on selling/abandoning the project in which case they don't care about their reputation 

Nope I've never reversed a self exclusion as I never received one. I said none of the cooldown bs because a mod in chat talked about that, and since I'm severely addicted, waiting 1 day will build my addiction back up, I'll deposit and won't go forth with it as I'll have money on my account. 

 

Even if I did (which i didn't) my long letters explaining my situation and my addiction would make any self respecting casino ban my account.

UGGH! i was really hoping you had replied that you had done that. That would prove that the system n place doesn't work for you. 

It is now down whether askgamblers see stakes self exclusion  process as ft for purpose and if stake can convince that  you were unwilling to follow their procedure and therefore didn't provide ownership of the account blah blah blah.

IF you had followed the procedure on a few occasions for instance - that would have been damning evidence of why you needed a immediate self exclusion and these messages requesting it weren't spare of the moment anger.

 

 

[Tarrterr]

17 minutes ago, ktinho said:

These places already exist. ThePOGG,casinomeister and askgamblers all fight and converse with casinos on players behalf. I imagine there are more that i am unaware of.

UGGH! i was really hoping you had replied that you had done that. That would prove that the system n place doesn't work for you. 

It is now down whether askgamblers see stakes self exclusion  process as ft for purpose and if stake can convince that  you were unwilling to follow their procedure and therefore didn't provide ownership of the account blah blah blah.

IF you had followed the procedure on a few occasions for instance - that would have been damning evidence of why you needed a immediate self exclusion and these messages requesting it weren't spare of the moment anger.

 

 

Askgamblers explains self exclusion protocols very thoroughly. Delay tactics such as the cooldown period are not allowed.

A cooldown period for a self exclusion to cut back on gambling is fine, but for self exclusion regarding an actual addiction, it is not allowed and you should be banned as fast as possible.

[ktinho]

1 hour ago, Tarrterr said:

Askgamblers explains self exclusion protocols very thoroughly. Delay tactics such as the cooldown period are not allowed.

A cooldown period for a self exclusion to cut back on gambling is fine, but for self exclusion regarding an actual addiction, it is not allowed and you should be banned as fast as possible.

Unfortunately i am not well versed in curacao licenses and the laws they have regarding self exclusion policies. So i can't say whether askgamblers and what curacao require are aligned.

Hopefully someone here will know that. (please don't reply with opinion just fact so the OP knows where he stands in that regards) 

I am in agreement that if you ask for self exclusion you should get it. I am not judging the case though unfortunately!

1 hour ago, Ghostnipple said:

That's true and useful to know.  However I do think Stake players need a voice of their own. Stake exists and is funded entirely by the Stake player base. The players collectively could make or break stake overnight if they chose to do so. In that context I think the Stake players deserve a powerful voice of their own. They are the single biggest investor in the stake enterprise it is only right that they have a seat at the directors table.

the player base is  the business of course but only a smaller number use this forum and a lot of the 'issues' are opinion based rather than factual and evidence based. Opinion is divided so losing some of the player base won't really be an issue as those people will be replaced  by people who watch certain streamers etc.

If a person doesn't have faith or any trust in the site then they should go play elsewhere. IF there was a player presence in decision making i can still envisage thread after thread of 'corrupt' 'rigged' etc when complaints don't go the customers way.

At least when its independent like askgamblers people tend to accept the decisions.

this isn't meant as a "don't like it  go elsewhere" type of reply.  please don't read it that way! 

 

[ktinho]

@Ghostnipple 10 minute reloads of just a few cents are not worth the time. I t takes far too much patience and time to collect enough to make it worthwhile.  The issue being though that it can keep someone focused entirely upon gambling  for that 72 hour period even if hey are not actually gambling what they are collecting.

We can choose not to collect them though which we have to mention to show balance. 

I would prefer  if we could have an option to collect a %. so 1 days worth of reloads in a lump sum but discarding the ability to collect the rest.

 

Iam not yet plat so of course i refer to pre/post monthly

@Tarrterr no updates on this?

[abousakr]

on stake you still got the chance to give your opinion on the forum be happy about it

casino is one day for you and another for the banker

get over it its a casino guys and manage your deposits

[Mae1]

How u became an abuser dear 💞😊 maybe stake only gives based on our wager we does at stake ...no bonus if u Haven't wager well...

[Tarrterr]

2 hours ago, ktinho said:

@Ghostnipple 10 minute reloads of just a few cents are not worth the time. I t takes far too much patience and time to collect enough to make it worthwhile.  The issue being though that it can keep someone focused entirely upon gambling  for that 72 hour period even if hey are not actually gambling what they are collecting.

We can choose not to collect them though which we have to mention to show balance. 

I would prefer  if we could have an option to collect a %. so 1 days worth of reloads in a lump sum but discarding the ability to collect the rest.

 

Iam not yet plat so of course i refer to pre/post monthly

@Tarrterr no updates on this?

Still waiting for a reply on both complaints, no update so far.

17 hours ago, Ghostnipple said:

I agree with you but the beast that is stake can be observed from different perspectives depending on which rock you choose to stand on. Each perspective is valid depending where an individual chooses to stand and one doesnt negate the other. The individuals that currently manage stake have a perspective that naturally suits their agenda, which is primarily driven by a profit motive. Nothing wrong with any of that except when it becomes abusive. It is normal for any business enterprise to maximise profit and to squeeze their customer base until it bites back. If nobody stands up and says hang on youve gone too far here, how are they to know when they have crossed the line.

I do like to make a distinction between Stake and the individual currently managing Stake. Many players over the years have invested their time and effort and money in Stake. Asking them to just abandon Stake simply because the current manager lacks any sort of vision is a little unfair.  

But maybe you are correct if players abandon ship, it is an effective way to send a message to the current management team, that exploitative practices are unacceptable. The most effective way to do that of course is en masse in a coordinated fashion, whether that is possible  I can't say.

I've always thought those 10 minute reloads are the antithesis of responsible gambling. What is your view on those?

Those 10 min reloads will generally make an addict out of anyone susceptible to addictions. If you aren't susceptible you probably won't even claim most of them.

 

2 hours ago, abousakr said:

on stake you still got the chance to give your opinion on the forum be happy about it

casino is one day for you and another for the banker

get over it its a casino guys and manage your deposits

Easy to say "get over it" when we're talking about undelivered promises in return for money.

 

1 hour ago, Mae1 said:

How u became an abuser dear 💞😊 maybe stake only gives based on our wager we does at stake ...no bonus if u Haven't wager well...

That's the point. Stake can not remove this bonus due to low wager. They always told me they removed it due to low wager, but now that I made a complaint they switched their story and claim I abused Stake somehow.

 

To everyone reading this, the whole point of this forum post is the fact that they switched their story the moment I made a complaint. It turned into a discussion about my complaints themselves, but the main focus was always them switching their story and publicly lying.

[iulianbutanu]

I don't think the resolution on askgamblers will have any other replies but i personally wish you the best!

[ktinho]

we have to take on face value what the OP is saying  and then wait for a reply from the casino. Don't be quick to judge. The casino have made a mistake before with regards to self exclusion and that is the case i am more interested in. That doesn't mean the OP is wrong about the bonus issue - just the safety of the player is far more important to me than a bonus.

 

Let us see what the outcome is because making rash judgements can often make you look silly.

[Tarrterr]

11 minutes ago, ktinho said:

we have to take on face value what the OP is saying  and then wait for a reply from the casino. Don't be quick to judge. The casino have made a mistake before with regards to self exclusion and that is the case i am more interested in. That doesn't mean the OP is wrong about the bonus issue - just the safety of the player is far more important to me than a bonus.

 

Let us see what the outcome is because making rash judgements can often make you look silly.

I fully respect your input on this thread. Normally on this forum people defending Stake start attacking me without ever thinking whether the user could actually be right sometimes.

You're not defending nor attacking anyone, just discussing the issue at hand and waiting for facts to arise to form your opinion. People like that are hard to find nowadays, which is a shame.

34 minutes ago, Ghostnipple said:

Unfortunately it seems to be a case of attack the man not his argument. Most intelligent people can see through that, I would think that the members of askgambler's dispute panel, would be wise enough to see that for what it is, an admission of guilt.

I have plenty of new proof to provide for most arguments that Stake can come up with, so they won't be able to lie their way through this.

Only problem is when they throw a curveball like the abuse accusation, which I never expected. 

Either way we'll see what they respond with and go from there.

 

 

Just now, Ghostnipple said:

For anyone wishing to make a complaint to askgamblers you need to be aware that Askgamblers wont entertain complaints from players if they have violated the casinos tos (or their bonus terms).

Stake's logical move is to try and say that you are in violation of their tos.

The action of having created an alt account in the past (2019-2020) does not violate the current tos, However if you were to use that alt account to play on stake currently, you will be in violation of the tos.

The account was made in 2017 so no problem there. The account was banned over a year ago so I was already punished for that. And either way this is in no way related to the issue at hand since the bonus was removed much later than the account was banned.

[Tarrterr]

2 hours ago, Ghostnipple said:

Stake are carefully selecting their words, they have not accused you directly of abusing their bonus system. They are saying their system has identified you (for whatever reason) as a bonus abuser. 

They have also identified me as being in the UK, which I am not. That didn't stop them locking my account.

One way or another this mindset will come crashing down on them, it's only a matter of time. They can keep digging themselves deeper but one day they will have to climb out as well.

[ktinho]

@Tarrterr some people will take the opposing stance from the person with an issue  just because it hasn't happened to them  - so it can't be true!. 

Anyone who has gambled online for a long period of time understands that curacao licenced casinos have been some of the worst!

Younger players won't be so aware so don't judge them to harshly for not understanding or showing compassion.

You ll also get those people who will not want you to be right because that will make them feel uncomfortable playing here having spent a lot of money.

I hope everything is resolved amicably.