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Stake is tracking you

nniks19

By nniks19
in Casino Discussion

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loafingpenguin Collaborator

loafingpenguin

Posted
Posted

@cobra3 You read the case study? Targeted promos/ads are not exclusive to stake, but seeing as its used for something as potentially crippling as gambling, makes it pretty unethical..it is up to the individual if they want to gamble or not, but using manipulative tactics such as this really has the potential to influence some people's decision-making.

Adnanc Enthusiast

Adnanc

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Kunss7711 said:

Use for us to lose?

No. To make you play more.

They don't care will specifically you or I lose or win.
You people should realize once and for all: We play against each other, they take the House Edge.
Most of us gotta lose small depos for some of us to win some significant amount.

Stake is just an intermediary side that takes it's cut, which is anywhere between 1-5% of amount being wagered by all of us in total.

The more you play, the bigger the amount they get, wether you win or lose, because someone will always be losing.

At the beginning of each financial year they can predict their amount of profit so accurate that it's scary:
probably 100-200K more or less is incredible when we talk about 10s or 100s of millions $ of profit.

I remember talking to a manager of one casino (not Stake), but traditional (fiat only) online casino where I won one of their jackpots. Their policy is to meet the winner personally and although we're 1000s of km away, so he (the manager) flew to my hometown to meet me and have a dinner.

So, not knowing how things work back then I asked him:

- "Do you feel bad when someone wins such huge amount?" 

He smiled and said: 

- "Actually, I'm glad. I love meeting with people that won, see how happy they are because it does not influence the company or me personally at all. At the beginning of the year, we know how much we're going to profit in next 12 month, assuming no extraordinary events occur. I also go and meet whales regularly, and it's hard spending time with them when they had a bad month or two. I hate that"

When saying extraordinary events he thought about things like a pandemic, which happened and affected most casinos in a positive manner,  or a huge financial crysis which also makes ordinary people turn to gamble more in order to make up for lower (no) salary and inflation (casinos profit again).

Basically, most casinos end up being in profit more than they think they would, and the only thing that could affect them is probably asteroid crashing the earth and fucking up internet completely.

That being said, Stake uses these tools to learn more about your habits, learn more about what you (don't) like, and provide you best user experience so you keep coming back, playing more, wagering more, losing, winnin, doesn't matter to them, as long as you're here to play.

Trust me, they would love if they could take 1% house edge and let us all winning all the time, but that's impossible.

I repeat, Stake is not your opponent here, it's that friend in chat that tipped you, or a stranger that said Good luck. Or someone that never said anything in chat. It's me. We take each others money, we share the RTP, and who'll get the most of it depends of couple of factors that include size of your balls, some luck and timing.

Stake... Stake gets peanuts compared to all  the money that flows around. And those peanuts are fucking large, but that's because they do their best to grow them in a regular and legal way, by advertising, giveaways, learning more about its users and giving them the best gambling experience they can.

Good luck.
Your opponent, I.

Arifrh6633 Contributor

Arifrh6633

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Adnanc said:

No. To make you play more.

They don't care will specifically you or I lose or win.
You people should realize once and for all: We play against each other, they take the House Edge.
Most of us gotta lose small depos for some of us to win some significant amount.

Stake is just an intermediary side that takes it's cut, which is anywhere between 1-5% of amount being wagered by all of us in total.

The more you play, the bigger the amount they get, wether you win or lose, because someone will always be losing.

At the beginning of each financial year they can predict their amount of profit so accurate that it's scary:
probably 100-200K more or less is incredible when we talk about 10s or 100s of millions $ of profit.

I remember talking to a manager of one casino (not Stake), but traditional (fiat only) online casino where I won one of their jackpots. Their policy is to meet the winner personally and although we're 1000s of km away, so he (the manager) flew to my hometown to meet me and have a dinner.

So, not knowing how things work back then I asked him:

- "Do you feel bad when someone wins such huge amount?" 

He smiled and said: 

- "Actually, I'm glad. I love meeting with people that won, see how happy they are because it does not influence the company or me personally at all. At the beginning of the year, we know how much we're going to profit in next 12 month, assuming no extraordinary events occur. I also go and meet whales regularly, and it's hard spending time with them when they had a bad month or two. I hate that"

When saying extraordinary events he thought about things like a pandemic, which happened and affected all most casinos in a positive manner,  or a huge financial crysis which also makes ordinary people turn to gamble more in order to make up for lower (no) salary and inflation (casinos profit again).

Basically, all most casinos end up being in profit more than they think they would, and the only thing that could affect them is probably asteroid crashing the earth and fucking up internet completely.

That being said, Stake uses these tools to learn more about your habits, learn more about what you (don't) like, and provide you best user experience so you keep coming back, playing more, wagering more, losing, winnin, doesn't matter to them, as long as you're here to play.

Trust me, they would love if they could take 1% house edge and let us all winning all the time, but that's impossible.

I repeat, Stake is not your opponent here, it's me, it's that friend in chat that tipped you, or a stranger that said Good luck. Or someone that never said anything in chat. It's me. We take each others money, we share the RTP, and who'll get the most of it depends of couple of factors that include of size of your balls, some luck and timing.

Stake... Stake gets peanuts compared to all  the money that flows around. And those peanuts are fucking large, but that's because they do their best to grow them in a regular and legal way, by advertising, giveaways, learning more about its users and giving them the best gambling experience they can.

Good luck.
Your opponent, I.

WoW youre write great text for forum

dupeddonk Veteran

dupeddonk

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, loafingpenguin said:

@cobra3 You read the case study? Targeted promos/ads are not exclusive to stake, but seeing as its used for something as potentially crippling as gambling, makes it pretty unethical..it is up to the individual if they want to gamble or not, but using manipulative tactics such as this really has the potential to influence some people's decision-making.

 

A casino that didn't use a CRM like optimove wouldn't have much hope at getting any decent market share ever.   

You can argue that specific marketing campaigns are unethical for whatever reason, or that operating a casino in general is unethical, but there's really nothing unethical about targeted advertising or using a CRM to get the most out of your marketing budget.

9 hours ago, nniks19 said:

stake is tracking you how you browse website /when you are online, when  you are chatting, clicks you are doing everything.

They are tracking what you do while you're using their product, on their site only.  You should always assume your actions are logged when you're using pretty much any site, but especially if you're generating revenue (depositing money)  for a successful business.

9 minutes ago, Arifrh6633 said:

WoW youre write great text for forum

so do you.

Arifrh6633 Contributor

Arifrh6633

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, dupeddonk said:

 

A casino that didn't use a CRM like optimove wouldn't have much hope at getting any decent market share ever.   

You can argue that specific marketing campaigns are unethical for whatever reason, or that operating a casino in general is unethical, but there's really nothing unethical about targeted advertising or using a CRM to get the most out of your marketing budget.

They are tracking what you do while you're using their product, on their site only.  You should always assume your actions are logged when you're using pretty much any site, but especially if you're generating revenue (depositing money)  for a successful business.

so do you.

Thanks appreciate

Adnanc Enthusiast

Adnanc

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Arifrh6633 said:

WoW youre write great text for forum

Yeah... I kinda do that for a livin' :)

55 minutes ago, dupeddonk said:

You can argue that specific marketing campaigns are unethical for whatever reason, or that operating a casino in general is unethical, but there's really nothing unethical about targeted advertising or using a CRM to get the most out of your marketing budget.

Well said. Targeted advertising means exactly that: Targeted. They target gamblers, people who are in it already. If they play at some other casino, I don't see why I (if I were casino owner) wouldn't try to get them to my place. Actually, I would take all necessary measures to make sure they come, however, all inside the law limits. Now, the law isn't same everywhere, but that's another story.

Non-targeted advertising, in my honest opinion, is a lot more unethical. It can lure non-gambling people, but people who are prone to any kind of addiction.

I'm a great example for this case. I was never gambling online. Sure, I did play at land casinos from time to time, but not even close as I do now online. Here's what happened. One day, while watching a football match on TV, I saw bet-at-home advertisement at the stadium. The fence around the field was entirely bet-at-home ad. Guess the first online casino I registered at... And it was maybe 12-13 years ago.

All sites track what you're doing and I don't see why Stake should be exception. If they got players to deposit more it's because they provided them better user experience than other casinos. Trust me, if those players didn't deposit that at Stake, they would deposit it at other online casino that did better to get them there. You know most of Stake players also have accounts at many other online casinos.

 

dupeddonk Veteran

dupeddonk

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Adnanc said:

Non-targeted advertising, in my honest opinion, is a lot more unethical. It can lure non-gambling people, but people who are prone to any kind of addiction.

I'm a great example for this case. I was never gambling online. Sure, I did play at land casinos from time to time, but not even close as I do now online. Here's what happened. One day, while watching a football match on TV, I saw bet-at-home advertisement at the stadium. The fence around the field was entirely bet-at-home ad. Guess the first online casino I registered at... And it was maybe 12-13 years ago

Is there really such a thing as non-targeted advertising?  The ad you saw that got you interested in stake was actually targeting you.  It was targeting people that are interested in sports, if you watch sports, you're more likely to be interested in gambling, even if you aren't yet.  

TV commercials during the day are targeted at stay at home moms. retired and sick people.  Childrens shows have ads for toys.

Signs along the highway are targeted at people that are driving towards a certain location, need gas or a hotel, or need a lawyer for car accidents.  

Not targeting your ads just seems like a waste of money. 

 

 

Adnanc Enthusiast

Adnanc

Posted
Posted
On 3/28/2023 at 12:13 AM, dupeddonk said:

Is there really such a thing as non-targeted advertising?  The ad you saw that got you interested in stake was actually targeting you.  It was targeting people that are interested in sports, if you watch sports, you're more likely to be interested in gambling, even if you aren't yet.  

TV commercials during the day are targeted at stay at home moms. retired and sick people.  Childrens shows have ads for toys.

Signs along the highway are targeted at people that are driving towards a certain location, need gas or a hotel, or need a lawyer for car accidents.  

Not targeting your ads just seems like a waste of money. 

 

 

Nah, gambling ad at football match isn't really a targeted ad by today standards. It can convert sure, but a % is far lower.
A lot more people that watches football is watching it for fun only, not becuase they bet on it.

There's a lot of minors on stadiums too, they can't bet even if they want it.

Targeted means something else, it's showing ads to those who clearly stated that they like something, in this case gambling. That can mean they registered at some casino, or just visited a gambling site (pixel is placed on their device, so advertisers know), liked or shared content related to gambling... It means they reach the people who are almost certainly going to convert, and avoiding those that are impossible to get as customers (minors, country restrictions etc). It's not blindly spending the ads budget, targeted ads are reserved for online content and networks. Traditional TV ads today are crap compared to online and cannot be considered targeted.    

Maroons8989 Enthusiast

Maroons8989

Posted
Posted
On 3/27/2023 at 2:50 AM, Adnanc said:

No. To make you play more.

They don't care will specifically you or I lose or win.
You people should realize once and for all: We play against each other, they take the House Edge.
Most of us gotta lose small depos for some of us to win some significant amount.

Stake is just an intermediary side that takes it's cut, which is anywhere between 1-5% of amount being wagered by all of us in total.

The more you play, the bigger the amount they get, wether you win or lose, because someone will always be losing.

At the beginning of each financial year they can predict their amount of profit so accurate that it's scary:
probably 100-200K more or less is incredible when we talk about 10s or 100s of millions $ of profit.

I remember talking to a manager of one casino (not Stake), but traditional (fiat only) online casino where I won one of their jackpots. Their policy is to meet the winner personally and although we're 1000s of km away, so he (the manager) flew to my hometown to meet me and have a dinner.

So, not knowing how things work back then I asked him:

- "Do you feel bad when someone wins such huge amount?" 

He smiled and said: 

- "Actually, I'm glad. I love meeting with people that won, see how happy they are because it does not influence the company or me personally at all. At the beginning of the year, we know how much we're going to profit in next 12 month, assuming no extraordinary events occur. I also go and meet whales regularly, and it's hard spending time with them when they had a bad month or two. I hate that"

When saying extraordinary events he thought about things like a pandemic, which happened and affected most casinos in a positive manner,  or a huge financial crysis which also makes ordinary people turn to gamble more in order to make up for lower (no) salary and inflation (casinos profit again).

Basically, most casinos end up being in profit more than they think they would, and the only thing that could affect them is probably asteroid crashing the earth and fucking up internet completely.

That being said, Stake uses these tools to learn more about your habits, learn more about what you (don't) like, and provide you best user experience so you keep coming back, playing more, wagering more, losing, winnin, doesn't matter to them, as long as you're here to play.

Trust me, they would love if they could take 1% house edge and let us all winning all the time, but that's impossible.

I repeat, Stake is not your opponent here, it's that friend in chat that tipped you, or a stranger that said Good luck. Or someone that never said anything in chat. It's me. We take each others money, we share the RTP, and who'll get the most of it depends of couple of factors that include size of your balls, some luck and timing.

Stake... Stake gets peanuts compared to all  the money that flows around. And those peanuts are fucking large, but that's because they do their best to grow them in a regular and legal way, by advertising, giveaways, learning more about its users and giving them the best gambling experience they can.

Good luck.
Your opponent, I.

This is all true but you’re leaving out one important aspect: we have no idea what level of control stake has over their games or their relationships with their providers. They operate with 100% immunity as they’re not audited by any legitimate regulatory agency. 

Kunss7711 Contributor

Kunss7711

Posted
Posted
On 3/27/2023 at 1:50 PM, Adnanc said:

No. To make you play more.

They don't care will specifically you or I lose or win.
You people should realize once and for all: We play against each other, they take the House Edge.
Most of us gotta lose small depos for some of us to win some significant amount.

Stake is just an intermediary side that takes it's cut, which is anywhere between 1-5% of amount being wagered by all of us in total.

The more you play, the bigger the amount they get, wether you win or lose, because someone will always be losing.

At the beginning of each financial year they can predict their amount of profit so accurate that it's scary:
probably 100-200K more or less is incredible when we talk about 10s or 100s of millions $ of profit.

I remember talking to a manager of one casino (not Stake), but traditional (fiat only) online casino where I won one of their jackpots. Their policy is to meet the winner personally and although we're 1000s of km away, so he (the manager) flew to my hometown to meet me and have a dinner.

So, not knowing how things work back then I asked him:

- "Do you feel bad when someone wins such huge amount?" 

He smiled and said: 

- "Actually, I'm glad. I love meeting with people that won, see how happy they are because it does not influence the company or me personally at all. At the beginning of the year, we know how much we're going to profit in next 12 month, assuming no extraordinary events occur. I also go and meet whales regularly, and it's hard spending time with them when they had a bad month or two. I hate that"

When saying extraordinary events he thought about things like a pandemic, which happened and affected most casinos in a positive manner,  or a huge financial crysis which also makes ordinary people turn to gamble more in order to make up for lower (no) salary and inflation (casinos profit again).

Basically, most casinos end up being in profit more than they think they would, and the only thing that could affect them is probably asteroid crashing the earth and fucking up internet completely.

That being said, Stake uses these tools to learn more about your habits, learn more about what you (don't) like, and provide you best user experience so you keep coming back, playing more, wagering more, losing, winnin, doesn't matter to them, as long as you're here to play.

Trust me, they would love if they could take 1% house edge and let us all winning all the time, but that's impossible.

I repeat, Stake is not your opponent here, it's that friend in chat that tipped you, or a stranger that said Good luck. Or someone that never said anything in chat. It's me. We take each others money, we share the RTP, and who'll get the most of it depends of couple of factors that include size of your balls, some luck and timing.

Stake... Stake gets peanuts compared to all  the money that flows around. And those peanuts are fucking large, but that's because they do their best to grow them in a regular and legal way, by advertising, giveaways, learning more about its users and giving them the best gambling experience they can.

Good luck.
Your opponent, I.

wow bro you explain great to me, now i i know about stake

Arifrh6633 Contributor

Arifrh6633

Posted
Posted
On 3/27/2023 at 2:52 PM, Adnanc said:

Yeah... I kinda do that for a livin' :)

Well said. Targeted advertising means exactly that: Targeted. They target gamblers, people who are in it already. If they play at some other casino, I don't see why I (if I were casino owner) wouldn't try to get them to my place. Actually, I would take all necessary measures to make sure they come, however, all inside the law limits. Now, the law isn't same everywhere, but that's another story.

Non-targeted advertising, in my honest opinion, is a lot more unethical. It can lure non-gambling people, but people who are prone to any kind of addiction.

I'm a great example for this case. I was never gambling online. Sure, I did play at land casinos from time to time, but not even close as I do now online. Here's what happened. One day, while watching a football match on TV, I saw bet-at-home advertisement at the stadium. The fence around the field was entirely bet-at-home ad. Guess the first online casino I registered at... And it was maybe 12-13 years ago.

All sites track what you're doing and I don't see why Stake should be exception. If they got players to deposit more it's because they provided them better user experience than other casinos. Trust me, if those players didn't deposit that at Stake, they would deposit it at other online casino that did better to get them there. You know most of Stake players also have accounts at many other online casinos.

 

Thanks

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